Hey all, wondering if anyone can shed some light on this problem...We recently did a rust stain removal job on the patio concrete in a client's backyard. Every other stain came up with one coat of BARC just as it always does, but one stain has yet to fully come out. The mark was left by a steel shade umbrella base. It is now clear that some "chunks" of rust from the umbrella stand have become bonded to the concrete. I've treated the stains at least half a dozen times, even went in with a wire brush to try and break up the build up a bit. Didn't effect it much.
Any ideas on how to fully clear this stain? The client is very understanding, but I assured her I would try to get to the bottom of this before I accept payment for the job.
The photo is a 'before' shot. The remaining stain is smaller, and localized around a few spots about the size of a nickel.
i woukd think that the concrete might have perminent damage and can be stains deep. Sounds like you went above and beyond. I looked at a job last year that another contractor tried to remove fertilizer stains from a concrete porch, and he failed. He used oxalic acid and he actually burned the concretes top layer, called the cream. you might want to call Craig at F9 just to be sure. Once concrete is burned it looks worse and cannot be reversed.
Eric Hemming said
Mar 3, 2017
Rust stains sometimes takes alot of light application. Sometimes it good to do a light pressure washing if the concrete has a think layer of rust and to open the concrete pores so the soaps can work better.
Josh Agadoni said
Mar 4, 2017
Thank you John and Eric for the feedback.
Eric, we did do a pressure wash of all the concrete prior to the original treatment to prep the surface and open pores. I wonder if I'll need to do that again to retreat. I feel as though these spots that remain are not so much rust stains as they are actual "chunks" of metal that flaked off the umbrella stand and bonded with the concrete surface. So I don't know if it is still in the realm of what I can handle.
John, thank you for the cautionary tale. Other than continuing to apply BARC I'm definitely wary of bringing in other methods that I'm not familiar with.
John Aloisio said
Mar 6, 2017
Josh,
no problem. But be careful even too many applications of F9 can burn concrete.
Chris Mozick said
Mar 10, 2017
By chance did you try hot water
Josh Agadoni said
Mar 11, 2017
John, I hear you. I don't plan on doing anything more with the BARC. Will probably tell the client there is nothing more I can do without risking damage to the concrete.
Chris, if you're referring to a hot water pw, no I haven't. I don't own a hot water unit. Have you seen success with this type of thing using hot water?
Troy Layman said
Mar 16, 2017
Josh, if I'm looking at the right part of the image, they appear to be three dimensional. Have you tried a putty knife or similar tool and some gentle tapping? Or maybe a Dremel tool with some form of grinding wheel? There may be some minor scratches to the concrete afterwards, but it would look better than three dimensional rust. And from my OCD side, leaving that rusted metal on the concrete could leave a place to cut someone's foot while walking around this summer. A cut foot, rusty metal...is your tetanus shot up to date?
Josh Agadoni said
Mar 16, 2017
Great thought, Troy. I may try the Dremel tool approach, as I have a similar OCD side that can't leave it the way it is. The spots at this point aren't elevated (3D) anymore, so I don't see them as potentially hazardous, but all the same, it would be nice to have them gone completely. I may have to take the Dremel over and see what it can do....carefully.
Troy Layman said
Mar 21, 2017
That's one of the things I love about these forums Josh, someone will almost always have past experience on some oddball issue, or an out of the box idea to get you thinking. I'm not ready to do a Marriott, but I loved reading all of the great ideas on that thread! Best of luck landing that job! Good pay, great experience, and great resume' builder for the future!
Josh Agadoni said
Mar 21, 2017
You said it, Troy! So I ended up going over and taking the Dremel and a mini grinding wheel to the rust spots to level them back to the original concrete. It didn't take more than 10-15 min to get the spots to all but disappear. I'm now happy with the results of the job. Client is happy, too. I may not normally have gone to these lengths, but this client has had us do a number of jobs for her, and has referred us to many friends and neighbors as well. Cultivate those good relationships, even if it means spending some time hunched over some tiny rust spots with a Dremel tool for a few minutes. It's those little things that reinforce the company image in the mind of your valued clients.
As for the Marriott job, I don't feel ready for that size job either. It scares the crap out of me. But with the help of the SoftWash family I know I can get it done and build on that success. The proposal has been submitted, I'll follow up in a couple days, and we'll see what happens.
Troy Layman said
Mar 27, 2017
Best of luck on that Marriott job Josh! If I was closer I'd give you a hand to help you out and make sure you had another set of OCD watching details, but if we were any further apart we'd be in the oceans.
Hopefully this customer was grateful enough to take some time out of their busy day and give you an amazing review for going above and beyond!
Chris Mozick said
Mar 29, 2017
Sorry so late been really busy but yes I use hot water Pw and it helps extract the stains out easier
Josh Agadoni said
Mar 31, 2017
No worries, Chris! Thanks for the knowledge. I'll tuck it away for later. :)
Troy Layman said
Apr 6, 2017
Hey John,
Just following up...any word back on that Marriott job?
Josh Agadoni said
Apr 10, 2017
Not yet, Troy. Thanks for asking. I made a follow-up call to the AGM (my main contact) three days after submitting the proposal, just to check in and see if they needed anything else. She said it would be a few weeks until the GM had a chance to review all the bids that came in. He was going to be out of town until this week.
If I don't hear anything by Friday I will make another call to the AGM to see what the status is. She mention in our last conversation that the GM glanced at my proposal before heading out of town and was surprised at how high the number was. I responded by briefly highlighting (once again) the differentiating features of SoftWash over PW and saying that safety and value-wise it is near impossible to compare the two. The proposal itself spends most of its time highlighting how we are different and the best choice as a company (SWS certified, Ask the Seal, Insurance, etc). I felt good about my pitch, but not sure how much of it will make it to the GMs ears.
Troy Layman said
Apr 11, 2017
Yeah, sounds like you may not have much chance if you don't get to speak to the GM directly unless he takes the time to dig into the details of the brochures and websites. Being a hotel and trying to offer customers a place of peace and quiet, a place to relax, a place they can have meetings and work and concentrate, hold conference calls, webinars, take advantage of their meeting halls, hold training classes, wedding parties or other gatherings...all this will be negatively effected by the constant noise of a pressure washer. A negative review about the noise online could easily cost them the difference, aside for your superior cleaning skills and abilities. :0)
Chris Mozick said
Apr 16, 2017
F9 efflorescence might work on that too but ask Craig
Hey all, wondering if anyone can shed some light on this problem...We recently did a rust stain removal job on the patio concrete in a client's backyard. Every other stain came up with one coat of BARC just as it always does, but one stain has yet to fully come out. The mark was left by a steel shade umbrella base. It is now clear that some "chunks" of rust from the umbrella stand have become bonded to the concrete. I've treated the stains at least half a dozen times, even went in with a wire brush to try and break up the build up a bit. Didn't effect it much.
Any ideas on how to fully clear this stain? The client is very understanding, but I assured her I would try to get to the bottom of this before I accept payment for the job.
The photo is a 'before' shot. The remaining stain is smaller, and localized around a few spots about the size of a nickel.
Josh,
i woukd think that the concrete might have perminent damage and can be stains deep. Sounds like you went above and beyond. I looked at a job last year that another contractor tried to remove fertilizer stains from a concrete porch, and he failed. He used oxalic acid and he actually burned the concretes top layer, called the cream. you might want to call Craig at F9 just to be sure. Once concrete is burned it looks worse and cannot be reversed.
Eric, we did do a pressure wash of all the concrete prior to the original treatment to prep the surface and open pores. I wonder if I'll need to do that again to retreat. I feel as though these spots that remain are not so much rust stains as they are actual "chunks" of metal that flaked off the umbrella stand and bonded with the concrete surface. So I don't know if it is still in the realm of what I can handle.
John, thank you for the cautionary tale. Other than continuing to apply BARC I'm definitely wary of bringing in other methods that I'm not familiar with.
Josh,
no problem. But be careful even too many applications of F9 can burn concrete.
Chris, if you're referring to a hot water pw, no I haven't. I don't own a hot water unit. Have you seen success with this type of thing using hot water?
As for the Marriott job, I don't feel ready for that size job either. It scares the crap out of me. But with the help of the SoftWash family I know I can get it done and build on that success. The proposal has been submitted, I'll follow up in a couple days, and we'll see what happens.
Hopefully this customer was grateful enough to take some time out of their busy day and give you an amazing review for going above and beyond!
No worries, Chris! Thanks for the knowledge. I'll tuck it away for later. :)
Just following up...any word back on that Marriott job?
If I don't hear anything by Friday I will make another call to the AGM to see what the status is. She mention in our last conversation that the GM glanced at my proposal before heading out of town and was surprised at how high the number was. I responded by briefly highlighting (once again) the differentiating features of SoftWash over PW and saying that safety and value-wise it is near impossible to compare the two. The proposal itself spends most of its time highlighting how we are different and the best choice as a company (SWS certified, Ask the Seal, Insurance, etc). I felt good about my pitch, but not sure how much of it will make it to the GMs ears.