I'm going to be purchasing another forum members SoftWashing equipment in the next few months and for budget reasons I'll be mounting this to a trailer. He is attached to his tank so I'm in the market for a tank of my own and have a few questions. I have a full time job that is secure so for the time being I'm doing this in the afternoons or weekends, but I still want to do this right. I plan on starting with shingle roofs and growing slowly from there, and yes, I do plan on going to one of the upcoming Revolution's for proper training, and hopefully I'll meet some of you there.
I have a company that delivers SH to my area and could deliver 55 gallon drums of 12.5 % SH to my home weekly if I need.
1) Would you suggest using SH, or adding another pump and using CH? I realize SH is easier to mix, but CH is not quite as bad for plants and has a longer shelf life which is a consideration with me not doing SoftWashing 40 hours a week.
2) If I'm using CH, I know I'll need to constantly agitate the mix. Any suggestions on a pump that would withstand constant use for agitation?
3) What size tank would you suggest?
4) What is your preference in tanks, round, rectangular, etc.?
5) I'm going to be one batching...how long will the SH/CH mix remain good in the tank mixed with Green Wash before it is ineffective? I know I could do some freebie work for the customer to use the remaining mix and improve my name and increase customer satisfaction, but if I run out of daylight or time, what could I do with the old mix once it is ineffective?
6) Would you suggest a 2nd tank for rinsing? If so, what size? What PSI/GPM pump?
Thanks in advance for your time and input!
Troy
Tim Teed said
Jan 30, 2015
Get Horizontal Tanks from Tractor Supply or an Agricultural Supply house
1 50 gallon take for your mix
1 100' gallon tank for SH
Don't use CH to start
Don't worry about mix going bad if you use greenwash. Just mix smaller batches or dilute roof mix for siding mix
No tank needed for rinsing
Take the lead Tech Modules
Matt Lancaster said
Jan 30, 2015
Hi Troy you have many good questions, I encourage you to get some training at a revolution camp . Since you are looking at a slow and steady approach take your time and build your confidence. SH and CH both have their unique advantages and draw backs SH has a long shelf life in the drum un mixed. . As for tanks the new SWS skid is equipped with all 50 Gallon tanks and if you're starting out with weekend residential jobs a 50 Gallon mix and a 50 Gallon chemical tanks should be sufficient.
The revolution camp will give you hands on exposure to great equipment and skilled contractors who make their primary income softwashing. This step should be first. The cost of attending is well worth it and will help guide you in constructing your system to adequately serve your needs.
Since you are a fan of Mark Cuban and Dave Ramsey the other advic e I'll give is SOFTWASH SYSTEMS is just that aBUSINESS SYSTEM , much more than just equipment and chemicals. Mirror and match and success can be yours with tremendous effort .
Good luck and keep asking questions.
Vic Irish said
Jan 30, 2015
Well said, Troy. Brings to mind one of my own questions. Hope it's ok if I ask it here...
I have a 210 gallon water tank that used to be for DI water. Now it sits around unused.
Thinking of using it for mixing CH in it, then moving 100 gallons at a time to the mix tank in my truck.
That way the sediment will stay in the big tank, not in my truck.
Does anyone foresee any problems with this method?
Go Seahawks! Beat the New England Deflatriots!! <Grin>
vic
Matt Lancaster said
Jan 31, 2015
Hi Vic,
there are guys doing exactly what you are considering. The only drawback is CH does not have the shelf life of SH once diluted. I do not have a lot of experience with the actual shelf life so I'm not going to predict it. Hopefully another member who does this will chime in.
John Aloisio said
Jan 31, 2015
Vic,
you should give Brandon a call, as he is the head powderpuff. He probably has the most experience of us all and he is closest to you.
Vic Irish said
Jan 31, 2015
Matt Lancaster wrote:
Hi Vic, there are guys doing exactly what you are considering. The only drawback is CH does not have the shelf life of SH once diluted. I do not have a lot of experience with the actual shelf life so I'm not going to predict it. Hopefully another member who does this will chime in.
Thank you, Matt!
We are on the dry part of the state, but I'm seeing more and more possible projects for the future.
What is the actual name for Pixy Dust, and will it work with old CH?
Sorry I missed you guys at Softwashapalooza. Maybe LA...
vic
Vic Irish said
Jan 31, 2015
John Aloisio wrote:
Vic,
you should give Brandon a call, as he is the head powderpuff. He probably has the most experience of us all and he is closest to you.
Brandon is like the light at the end of my tunnel. I'm hoping to get over to Portland so we can fill out my Lead card after I prove I can do everything.
Can't wait for our 1st annual Portland/Pacific Revolution later this year...
Sometime after the Seahawks win tomorrow ;)
vic
PS- Proud to be a potential Portland Powderpuff, partner!!
Troy Layman said
Mar 10, 2015
OK, I thought I had replied to this post to say thank you for the great advice, but apparently I didn't hit the button to save the post. So thank you for taking the time and effort to respond!
First, I'm taking the advice and I'm going to be at the Revolution Camp in April (23-24) in Greenville, SC that Pat's hosting. My wife is making the calls today for room pricing to see if the SWS event prices will be lower per room and if my federal employee discount would apply. I need to follow up with a local member who is planning on selling me his 3 YO Fat Boy Bandit (http://pressuretek.com/fatboybandit.html) this month or next month when he upgrades his system.
I've been looking (and looking and looking) at tanks and found the following two that fit the bill, but one of the salesmen is saying the tank is fine for holding SH/CH, but the tank is not DOT approved. Is that a concern for us carrying less than 119 gallons of SH/CH or is that a 120+ gallon concern when you are required to also have a CDL?
50 Gallon PCO tank - Sprayer Depot - http://www.sprayerdepot.com/Shop-by-Category/PCO-Tanks/PC00050SWSL - $238.18 including aluminum straps and shipped to my door. This was exciting because every other site the shipping was almost equal (and sometimes more expensive) than the tank itself.
65 Gallon chem tank - Tractor Supply - http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/leg-style-storage-tank-65-gal - $199.99 + tax, NO straps, local pick up. I spoke to the manager and he said they do not have straps for these tanks and suggested nylon straps. That concerns me.
Vic, no problems adding your questions on my thread. It's good information and now since it's tagged in my thread, it will be really easy for me to find in the future. Win/Win in my book! What information did Brandon have to share about the CH?
I am not trying to discourage you from buying another members pump, but I would personally be a little worried about a three year old pump. Even if the pump was cleaned and rinsed thoroughly, it might not last, or it could last a little. Just trying to save you some money/headaches before it happens. We commonly go through about 6-8 pumps per year, and they are rinsed daily with water and Bleach Wash. You typically get about $50-$75K of sales out of a pump, before it quits. Sometimes more, sometimes less.........too many factors to predict.
As for tanks, if you can stay away from bottom bung tanks, you should. Especially for your pure SH chemical tank. Most of the suppliers sell tanks, and I know a lot of guys have had success with the Powerwash Stores vertical tanks. You should ask Racenstein for a price, Powerwash Store, etc... Ask for top plumbing.
Hope this helps!!
Chad Eneix said
Mar 10, 2015
On a similar not to John's advice about pump failure, make sure you have a slush fund if you are starting slow and steady.
Pump failures are just one of the things that can be an unexpected cost. Needing a longer ladder or a 200' of extra hose- or both- happens. Also, there is the better kind of unexpected expense. Say you land a big job and need a bunch more SH and Green Wash, and you need it NOW! It hurts when this happens, but you have to keep in mind its a good thing! You seem like you have the forethought to know this, but I thought it worth mentioning.
To answer your actual questions, I would start with SH. But I would try out CH, or at least hook up with another member who is using CH, early on in your training. Not sure if you are buying a SWS skid or another kind of soft washing equipment, so ignore the next if it does not apply. I started with a twin pump system on a trailer and a 50 gallon vertical tank with only a top opening. I mixed the SH before leaving to the strongest % I would need and diluted down as the job dictated. I carried extra SH when needed in 5 gallon pails. It worked, as I was doing the sort of volume you're talking about. It was a little bit of a pain, also transferring chems by hand always leads to spills, avoid it if you can. Be careful if this is what your doing, protect yourself at all times. Also, my trailer is two years old and the area where the tank sits looks about 10 years old with rust. I now have a Gen II skid and it's way better, but my old system worked well and bought my new skid pretty quickly!
Michael Derose said
Mar 10, 2015
Troy,
If you are getting that bandit set up for under 600.00 then I would grab it fast. Then purchase another fatboy pump or a delavan 5850 to have as a back up. I picked up a bandit set up from a local company that went under. It was 2 yrs old and it is still running great till this day. I have a back up pump just in case but it's a nice little compact unit. I would go to tractor supply and get a 50 gallon pco tank. I have 2 and they are still in really good shape and they are more than 3 yrs old.
Michael Derose said
Mar 10, 2015
Last thing. I had a delavan 5850 that lasted a whole season with about 250 roofs on it. Then it went after the second month in the following season. Most likely did another 30-40 roofs. Point is some pumps can last for a long time and some just one time. I have gone thru 3 penta flex pumps in 4 months last year. The pump I have now has lasted 6 months now and hopefully it will last another 1-2 months to start the season.
Troy Layman said
Mar 11, 2015
Thanks for the Wizard advice John and Chad!
John, I didn’t disclose the full information for the sake of posting length (I type fast and end up with a small book before I know it) – but great advice!The Fat Boy Bandit roof cleaning system is ~3 years old (and I’m paying around 1/3 the new price), but the pump itself was replaced with a new pump last year ~mid-season.The person I’m buying the system from has a full time job that allows him to do roof cleaning as well but he probably does 1-4 jobs a week tops, and maybe 50-90 jobs on the pump.I rode with him on a few jobs and I saw him empty the SH mix back into the mix tank and running the water and bleach wash mix through at the end of the job(s), so I believe the pump has been cared for as much as any other company would.I believe the original pump lasted ~2 ½ years.Would you feel secure buying this system with this pump?Since you never know whena pump is going to fail, and it’s always going to fail on the job, a backup pump was going to be pretty high on my list of items to have on hand once I get going.
I’ve sent e-mails to both Bob with the PW Store and the helpdesk at J. Racenstein asking about 50/55 gallon tanks.Bob e-mailed me this morning saying the only tanks he has are the ones that come with the (1) tank skid.Steve from J. Racenstein called me last night and we spoke for well over an hour and he was a wealth of information.We looked through tanks on several sites and the tank he recommended was the one I was looking at http://www.sprayerdepot.com/Shop-by-Category/PCO-Tanks/PC00050SWSL.He liked the brand (Ace Roto-Mold), it was made in the USA and not China, and most of the tanks anywhere else we looked were from 25 to 27 pounds and one from Plastic-Mart being 34 pounds, and this tank is 90 pounds.I’m assuming this extra weight would be due to thicker walls?The tank price was the same as the others within ~$10, but the shipping was $43.08 from SprayerDepot.com versus $140-$190 on most other sites, which is why the price was $100-$150 less than others.
I’m already laughing before I even get to type my question…I know you and Tim enjoy tossing comical comments back and forth so when I tell you Tim suggested I get horizontal tanks and you suggested vertical tanks, after the question of “why”, was the next thought was anticipating the comments between you two. :0)What are the pro’s and con’s of the horizontal/vertical tanks?So far the tally is 2:1 (John, Chad : Tim) for vertical tanks : horizontal tanks.
Thanks for the tip on the top plumbing.Steve suggested the exact same and gave me a parts list if/when I set up for CH or for an automated draw from a chem. Tank (55 gallon drum for the time being) versus manually transferring.I have a company that is willing to deliver 12.5% SH in 55 gallon drums right to my door, and that’s hard to beat for the time being.Logic would say put the plumbing on the bottom so the draw/flow is easier, but it sounds like “experience” trumps logic in this case. :0)Leaks from the top plumbing are minimal, where leaks from the lower end are catastrophic by comparison.
Troy Layman said
Mar 11, 2015
Thank you Chad,
Slush fund…is that anything like the “Slushie” fund my wife had when she was pregnant? :0)
Excellent points Chad.I could bypass an accumulator or patch a hose easily enough while on a job, but running a single pump system without a spare pump could leave me dead in the water.Not only costing me money, but making me look/feel like an idiot in front of the customer.A larger and new ladder is going to be early in my priority list of purchases because I’m using what is available to me at the moment and my current ladder is probably close to my age (and I just turned 45 last week).
I have (4) 5 gallon pails for carrying SH and I’ll probably do exactly what you recommended in the first post you replied to me in where I introduced myself – every 5 gallons of SH is ~1% mix in a 50 gallon tank, assuming you fill the tank to the full 50 gallons.I’ll have my SH in my mix tank before leaving home and carry a couple 5 gallon pails of SH with me for “cover my butt” situations and fill the remainder of the tank with water at the site.As far as spilling SH on myself in the transfer, I know it will happen without a doubt.I’m my father’s son and I’ve seen my dad stand near an open hood staring at an engine and never touch it and hands in his pockets, and somehow still walk away with grease on him, a trait I picked up somewhere along the line so I know I’ll be wearing SH while doing manual transfers.Mark Fermoyle made me laugh though…when he was transferring by hand when he started he used a huge funnel, although most of us call them orange safety cones .I spoke with Steve with J. Racenstein for over an hour last night and we discussed (and he sent me a parts list) on setting up a single pump system to be able to be used as a transfer pump as well, and that is going to be high on my list as well for the sake of saving my clothes and shoes (and myself).As the slush fund allows, I’ll probably add a second pump and create a dual pump system and have a built in back up pump.
I’m still looking for a trailer.If I cannot find a suitable one in the local trading post I figure I can get a low end trailer from the Tractor Supply Store or the trailer lot down the road to get me through the first couple of years.I was thinking about either getting several cans of spray on rubberized undercoating (or going to a spray in bed liner company) and spraying most of the trailer to protect the frame and rails, and adding some ¾ marine plywood to reinforce the deck and give a little extra protection, as well as a way to secure tank straps and the Fat Boy Bandit to the trailer.In the future I want to build up to an enclosed trailer that I can put a nice wrap on the outside for advertising like you did on your truck recently.This way I won’t have the back of a truck permanently tied up where I cannot use if for many other functions of everyday life.That’s one thing I picked up from Mark as well…being a part time roof cleaner he has gotten annoyed with the fact his truck can’t be used for everything else life throws at him because of the permanent equipment mounted in the back. I do try to learn from others experiences where I can.
Anyway, I did hear you about the slush fund.Most of my profits early on are going into building the business/equipment, and then I’ll keep a good percentage of the profits for upgrading equipment, training and advertising/growing the business.
Troy Layman said
Mar 11, 2015
Thank you for the input Mike!
Yes, the Fat Boy Bandit I’m buying is a little less than the price you mentioned.The fact that I don’t own it already isn’t that I’m waiting to buy it, but rather I’m waiting on the owner to be ready to sell it to me.The owner is upgrading to a new system (I forget the exact system) and he said he would sell his rig to me sometime in March or April.I followed up with him via e-mail a day or so ago to see if he has a more solid timeframe in mind so I’ll have then cash on hand when he is ready.
I see what you’re saying about the Tractor Supply Store tanks.I was by the local store this past weekend and they didn’t have any on hand (they only had (1) 35 gallon tank), so either way I’m going to have to wait for the shipping, plus the manager said their tanks are made in China, and the one I’m looking at is made in the USA.Almost every tank I could find online was between 25 and 34 pounds, and the one I’m looking at is 90 pounds, so I’m assuming the extra weight is due to thicker walls and a little sturdier construction?The manager at the Tractor Supply Store said they do not carry straps for any tanks smaller than ~250 gallons and all he could offer me was nylon straps to tie the tank down to a trailer, which doesn’t seem as secure or long lasting as an aluminum band so I moved on to other research.
Thank you for the advice on the Delavan 5850 pumps.They are definitely more budget friendly for me starting out than the Fat Boy, and for 2 gallons per minute less, I can salvage ~$100.I was reading on another forum that Bob disassembles and rebuilds the Devalan 5850 (and other) pumps with aftermarket parts so the parts in the electric motors that commonly fail on the Delavan SH pumps last longer and he gives them a 6 month warranty, which from what I’ve read the manufactures warranty is voided as soon as we pump SH through it so that’s a bonus.Are you using the Delavan pumps direct from the manufacturer or buying them from Bob at Pressure Tek?Do you add a heat sync to help manage the heat?Do you keep your pump in a battery box or other enclosure?I’ve never purchased a pump so I’m asking for more experienced input.
Troy Layman said
Mar 11, 2015
The 90 pounds wasn't correct...that was that the company was claiming as UPS shipping assigns a weight charge for the size of the package in this case.
I guess in this case I'll have to ask if everybody trusts the brand Den Hartog/Ace Roto Mold to have quality products?
AC Lockyer said
Mar 11, 2015
Yes!
Tim Teed said
Mar 11, 2015
You are worrying too much about the little details. I guarantee something will happen on a job but a phone call to anyone on the board, and we can help fix it. Everyone still has equipment problems and if you aren't over capacity you can easily go back to job and take care of it. I've found our customers to be very flexible and nice to deal with. Focus on the marketing and how to create value. Very quickly you will be landing some very profitable jobs and withing a couple of months you will be looking for nicer starter system - like the smart wash system for around $2K or or a SoftWash Systems Rig. A professional looking rig helps with your image and will justify a higher sell price.
Troy Layman said
Mar 12, 2015
You know Tim, you're exactly right there. The job I've had the past 8 years is customer service doing communications (ordering phone/data circuits etc.) working from an office in my home and 99.5% of my customers are working with me via e-mail from either half way or all the way across the country and not as polite as when you are talking to them face to face. I'd totally forgotten how much my customers truly loved me and my work ethic when I was working with them face to face. Thanks for jogging my memory.
John Aloisio said
Mar 12, 2015
Troy
I think the system is fine, but my suggestion is mainly for The pump. Make sure you have a backup. I suggested the vertical tanks to save you room....we actually use horizontal. They are both fine.
I have no comment for Tim today.....but tomorrow is another day!
Eric Owen said
Mar 12, 2015
Troy,
I started out with a 6x12 enclosed trailer. A open trailer is easier to work out of but everything is exposed.
I still have my trailer and after a lot of chems spilled in it, hoses busting on me, my pump, bleach everyware when it came apart,
despite all that I have had it repaired twice since 2009. If you would like more info email me your phone number.
Troy Layman said
Mar 12, 2015
Thank you Eric!
I just sent you a PM with my contact information. My first trailer is of course, due to budget. We only have a soccer mom mini-van at the moment so I'm going to have to put a trailer hitch on and use a trailer as the most cost effective starter solution that will still allow us to use the van to everyday use. Truck/trailer plans beyond that is flexible depending on what information I have on hand from people like yourself who have already walked this path. :0) I was thinking an enclosed trailer would enable me to still have the back of a truck free when I get one, would keep the SH out of the direct sunlight and give me a big broad side that I can advertise on, all while keeping my chemicals and equipment enclosed from the elements and sticky fingers. Of course now that I think about it, keeping the SH enclosed...I'm wondering if it would deteriorate everything enclosed in the trailer too? Would it help to have the inside sprayed with a spray in bed liner coating like the do the truck beds?
We can discuss on the phone, but I know others are watching and learning from this tread so I posted it here as well.
Chad Eneix said
Mar 13, 2015
Enclosed or not, get a 3500# axle and trailer brakes. You may not use them yet, but as you grow you never know what you might want that trailer for. I am phasing out the use of trailers as much as possible, but will always keep one with a 425 gallon water tank and transfer pump for water supply, and I have my personal utility trailer because you never know what you'll need to haul. Used it to move in to my new shop yesterday, and I'm renting scaffolding with it next week. Sometimes I wish my trailer was enclosed, sometimes I'm glad its not. Enclosed looks cleaner and more professional, open has less limitations and is easier to work out of.
Troy Layman said
Mar 13, 2015
Congratulations on the new shop! And I can't agree more Chad, and to be honest, I can't give a good reason why I haven't owned a trailer for years because I know they are so useful. My dad had the ability to look at a piece of dirt, a rock, a tree limb, almost anything, and find a way to make it useful and turn it into money. My dad always had a truck for hauling and he felt that was enough. Then when I was about 14 or 15 my mom, dad and I went to an auction and my mom and I went to get some hot dogs and I glanced back at my dad and he had this little mischievious grin on his face, and there was a nice motorcycle on the auction platform. I looked at my mom and said, "Mom, I think we own a motorcycle now..." Judging by the look on her face and the angry phrase, "What!!! We had better not!" I knew it wouldn't last long (but the bike was fun) and a few weeks later my dad traded the bike for some cash and a utility trailer which he intended to turn around and barter for his next deal. Before he had a chance to sell the trailer we found 1,000 uses for it and it was hooked up to the truck at least 2-3 times every week as long as I lived at home and we quickly wondered how we ever lived without one. Within a year or two he upgraded to a trailer big enough to haul vehicles and he had a trailer pretty much until the day he passed away, which is probably why I didn't own one myself because I had access to his trailer. Oh, and my dad didn't sell his last motorcycle until he was 74. :0)
I hadn't thought about it really, but now that you mention it adding brakes to a trailer is something I'd consider a necessicty. I was riding down I-295 with my mom when I was a kid and saw a vehicle pulling a medium sized camper and the traffic slowed suddenly and he had to get on his brakes pretty hard. The trailer must not have had brakes because it just started hopping from side to side, from the left tire to the right over and over, and the harder the driver hit the brakes the further the trailer bounced from side to side and into the adjacent lanes. I don't know how close we truly came to being hit, but it made quite an impression on me. I'll add this to my list of items somewhere under a back up pump and PPE/better ladder if the trailer I buy doesn't already have brakes.
AC Lockyer said
Mar 14, 2015
Wow this is a thesis.
AC
Troy Layman said
Mar 14, 2015
Yep, yep, yep! It's a side effect of having mad typing skills! 99% of my day job is typing replies to customer e-mails and such. I don't know exactly how fast I type but I'm certain it is well over 100+ words per minute. I start typing and before I know it have a lot more than I intended. :0)
Good morning friends!
I'm going to be purchasing another forum members SoftWashing equipment in the next few months and for budget reasons I'll be mounting this to a trailer. He is attached to his tank so I'm in the market for a tank of my own and have a few questions. I have a full time job that is secure so for the time being I'm doing this in the afternoons or weekends, but I still want to do this right. I plan on starting with shingle roofs and growing slowly from there, and yes, I do plan on going to one of the upcoming Revolution's for proper training, and hopefully I'll meet some of you there.
I have a company that delivers SH to my area and could deliver 55 gallon drums of 12.5 % SH to my home weekly if I need.
1) Would you suggest using SH, or adding another pump and using CH? I realize SH is easier to mix, but CH is not quite as bad for plants and has a longer shelf life which is a consideration with me not doing SoftWashing 40 hours a week.
2) If I'm using CH, I know I'll need to constantly agitate the mix. Any suggestions on a pump that would withstand constant use for agitation?
3) What size tank would you suggest?
4) What is your preference in tanks, round, rectangular, etc.?
5) I'm going to be one batching...how long will the SH/CH mix remain good in the tank mixed with Green Wash before it is ineffective? I know I could do some freebie work for the customer to use the remaining mix and improve my name and increase customer satisfaction, but if I run out of daylight or time, what could I do with the old mix once it is ineffective?
6) Would you suggest a 2nd tank for rinsing? If so, what size? What PSI/GPM pump?
Thanks in advance for your time and input!
Troy
1 50 gallon take for your mix
1 100' gallon tank for SH
Don't use CH to start
Don't worry about mix going bad if you use greenwash. Just mix smaller batches or dilute roof mix for siding mix
No tank needed for rinsing
Take the lead Tech Modules
Hi Troy you have many good questions, I encourage you to get some training at a revolution camp . Since you are looking at a slow and steady approach take your time and build your confidence. SH and CH both have their unique advantages and draw backs SH has a long shelf life in the drum un mixed. . As for tanks the new SWS skid is equipped with all 50 Gallon tanks and if you're starting out with weekend residential jobs a 50 Gallon mix and a 50 Gallon chemical tanks should be sufficient.
The revolution camp will give you hands on exposure to great equipment and skilled contractors who make their primary income softwashing. This step should be first. The cost of attending is well worth it and will help guide you in constructing your system to adequately serve your needs.
Since you are a fan of Mark Cuban and Dave Ramsey the other advic e I'll give is SOFTWASH SYSTEMS is just that aBUSINESS SYSTEM , much more than just equipment and chemicals. Mirror and match and success can be yours with tremendous effort .
Good luck and keep asking questions.
Well said, Troy. Brings to mind one of my own questions. Hope it's ok if I ask it here...
I have a 210 gallon water tank that used to be for DI water. Now it sits around unused.
Thinking of using it for mixing CH in it, then moving 100 gallons at a time to the mix tank in my truck.
That way the sediment will stay in the big tank, not in my truck.
Does anyone foresee any problems with this method?
Go Seahawks! Beat the New England Deflatriots!! <Grin>
vic
there are guys doing exactly what you are considering. The only drawback is CH does not have the shelf life of SH once diluted. I do not have a lot of experience with the actual shelf life so I'm not going to predict it. Hopefully another member who does this will chime in.
Vic,
you should give Brandon a call, as he is the head powderpuff. He probably has the most experience of us all and he is closest to you.
Thank you, Matt!
We are on the dry part of the state, but I'm seeing more and more possible projects for the future.
What is the actual name for Pixy Dust, and will it work with old CH?
Sorry I missed you guys at Softwashapalooza. Maybe LA...
vic
Brandon is like the light at the end of my tunnel. I'm hoping to get over to Portland so we can fill out my Lead card after I prove I can do everything.
Can't wait for our 1st annual Portland/Pacific Revolution later this year...
Sometime after the Seahawks win tomorrow ;)
vic
PS- Proud to be a potential Portland Powderpuff, partner!!
OK, I thought I had replied to this post to say thank you for the great advice, but apparently I didn't hit the button to save the post. So thank you for taking the time and effort to respond!
First, I'm taking the advice and I'm going to be at the Revolution Camp in April (23-24) in Greenville, SC that Pat's hosting. My wife is making the calls today for room pricing to see if the SWS event prices will be lower per room and if my federal employee discount would apply. I need to follow up with a local member who is planning on selling me his 3 YO Fat Boy Bandit (http://pressuretek.com/fatboybandit.html) this month or next month when he upgrades his system.
I've been looking (and looking and looking) at tanks and found the following two that fit the bill, but one of the salesmen is saying the tank is fine for holding SH/CH, but the tank is not DOT approved. Is that a concern for us carrying less than 119 gallons of SH/CH or is that a 120+ gallon concern when you are required to also have a CDL?
50 Gallon PCO tank - Sprayer Depot - http://www.sprayerdepot.com/Shop-by-Category/PCO-Tanks/PC00050SWSL - $238.18 including aluminum straps and shipped to my door. This was exciting because every other site the shipping was almost equal (and sometimes more expensive) than the tank itself.
65 Gallon chem tank - Tractor Supply - http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/leg-style-storage-tank-65-gal - $199.99 + tax, NO straps, local pick up. I spoke to the manager and he said they do not have straps for these tanks and suggested nylon straps. That concerns me.
Vic, no problems adding your questions on my thread. It's good information and now since it's tagged in my thread, it will be really easy for me to find in the future. Win/Win in my book! What information did Brandon have to share about the CH?
Troy,
I am not trying to discourage you from buying another members pump, but I would personally be a little worried about a three year old pump. Even if the pump was cleaned and rinsed thoroughly, it might not last, or it could last a little. Just trying to save you some money/headaches before it happens. We commonly go through about 6-8 pumps per year, and they are rinsed daily with water and Bleach Wash. You typically get about $50-$75K of sales out of a pump, before it quits. Sometimes more, sometimes less.........too many factors to predict.
As for tanks, if you can stay away from bottom bung tanks, you should. Especially for your pure SH chemical tank. Most of the suppliers sell tanks, and I know a lot of guys have had success with the Powerwash Stores vertical tanks. You should ask Racenstein for a price, Powerwash Store, etc... Ask for top plumbing.
Hope this helps!!
Pump failures are just one of the things that can be an unexpected cost. Needing a longer ladder or a 200' of extra hose- or both- happens. Also, there is the better kind of unexpected expense. Say you land a big job and need a bunch more SH and Green Wash, and you need it NOW! It hurts when this happens, but you have to keep in mind its a good thing! You seem like you have the forethought to know this, but I thought it worth mentioning.
To answer your actual questions, I would start with SH. But I would try out CH, or at least hook up with another member who is using CH, early on in your training. Not sure if you are buying a SWS skid or another kind of soft washing equipment, so ignore the next if it does not apply. I started with a twin pump system on a trailer and a 50 gallon vertical tank with only a top opening. I mixed the SH before leaving to the strongest % I would need and diluted down as the job dictated. I carried extra SH when needed in 5 gallon pails. It worked, as I was doing the sort of volume you're talking about. It was a little bit of a pain, also transferring chems by hand always leads to spills, avoid it if you can. Be careful if this is what your doing, protect yourself at all times. Also, my trailer is two years old and the area where the tank sits looks about 10 years old with rust. I now have a Gen II skid and it's way better, but my old system worked well and bought my new skid pretty quickly!
If you are getting that bandit set up for under 600.00 then I would grab it fast. Then purchase another fatboy pump or a delavan 5850 to have as a back up. I picked up a bandit set up from a local company that went under. It was 2 yrs old and it is still running great till this day. I have a back up pump just in case but it's a nice little compact unit. I would go to tractor supply and get a 50 gallon pco tank. I have 2 and they are still in really good shape and they are more than 3 yrs old.
Thanks for the Wizard advice John and Chad!
John, I didn’t disclose the full information for the sake of posting length (I type fast and end up with a small book before I know it) – but great advice! The Fat Boy Bandit roof cleaning system is ~3 years old (and I’m paying around 1/3 the new price), but the pump itself was replaced with a new pump last year ~mid-season. The person I’m buying the system from has a full time job that allows him to do roof cleaning as well but he probably does 1-4 jobs a week tops, and maybe 50-90 jobs on the pump. I rode with him on a few jobs and I saw him empty the SH mix back into the mix tank and running the water and bleach wash mix through at the end of the job(s), so I believe the pump has been cared for as much as any other company would. I believe the original pump lasted ~2 ½ years. Would you feel secure buying this system with this pump? Since you never know when a pump is going to fail, and it’s always going to fail on the job, a backup pump was going to be pretty high on my list of items to have on hand once I get going.
I’ve sent e-mails to both Bob with the PW Store and the helpdesk at J. Racenstein asking about 50/55 gallon tanks. Bob e-mailed me this morning saying the only tanks he has are the ones that come with the (1) tank skid. Steve from J. Racenstein called me last night and we spoke for well over an hour and he was a wealth of information. We looked through tanks on several sites and the tank he recommended was the one I was looking at http://www.sprayerdepot.com/Shop-by-Category/PCO-Tanks/PC00050SWSL. He liked the brand (Ace Roto-Mold), it was made in the USA and not China, and most of the tanks anywhere else we looked were from 25 to 27 pounds and one from Plastic-Mart being 34 pounds, and this tank is 90 pounds. I’m assuming this extra weight would be due to thicker walls? The tank price was the same as the others within ~$10, but the shipping was $43.08 from SprayerDepot.com versus $140-$190 on most other sites, which is why the price was $100-$150 less than others.
I’m already laughing before I even get to type my question…I know you and Tim enjoy tossing comical comments back and forth so when I tell you Tim suggested I get horizontal tanks and you suggested vertical tanks, after the question of “why”, was the next thought was anticipating the comments between you two. :0) What are the pro’s and con’s of the horizontal/vertical tanks? So far the tally is 2:1 (John, Chad : Tim) for vertical tanks : horizontal tanks.
Thanks for the tip on the top plumbing. Steve suggested the exact same and gave me a parts list if/when I set up for CH or for an automated draw from a chem. Tank (55 gallon drum for the time being) versus manually transferring. I have a company that is willing to deliver 12.5% SH in 55 gallon drums right to my door, and that’s hard to beat for the time being. Logic would say put the plumbing on the bottom so the draw/flow is easier, but it sounds like “experience” trumps logic in this case. :0) Leaks from the top plumbing are minimal, where leaks from the lower end are catastrophic by comparison.
Thank you Chad,
Slush fund…is that anything like the “Slushie” fund my wife had when she was pregnant? :0)
Excellent points Chad. I could bypass an accumulator or patch a hose easily enough while on a job, but running a single pump system without a spare pump could leave me dead in the water. Not only costing me money, but making me look/feel like an idiot in front of the customer. A larger and new ladder is going to be early in my priority list of purchases because I’m using what is available to me at the moment and my current ladder is probably close to my age (and I just turned 45 last week).
I have (4) 5 gallon pails for carrying SH and I’ll probably do exactly what you recommended in the first post you replied to me in where I introduced myself – every 5 gallons of SH is ~1% mix in a 50 gallon tank, assuming you fill the tank to the full 50 gallons. I’ll have my SH in my mix tank before leaving home and carry a couple 5 gallon pails of SH with me for “cover my butt” situations and fill the remainder of the tank with water at the site. As far as spilling SH on myself in the transfer, I know it will happen without a doubt. I’m my father’s son and I’ve seen my dad stand near an open hood staring at an engine and never touch it and hands in his pockets, and somehow still walk away with grease on him, a trait I picked up somewhere along the line so I know I’ll be wearing SH while doing manual transfers. Mark Fermoyle made me laugh though…when he was transferring by hand when he started he used a huge funnel, although most of us call them orange safety cones . I spoke with Steve with J. Racenstein for over an hour last night and we discussed (and he sent me a parts list) on setting up a single pump system to be able to be used as a transfer pump as well, and that is going to be high on my list as well for the sake of saving my clothes and shoes (and myself). As the slush fund allows, I’ll probably add a second pump and create a dual pump system and have a built in back up pump.
I’m still looking for a trailer. If I cannot find a suitable one in the local trading post I figure I can get a low end trailer from the Tractor Supply Store or the trailer lot down the road to get me through the first couple of years. I was thinking about either getting several cans of spray on rubberized undercoating (or going to a spray in bed liner company) and spraying most of the trailer to protect the frame and rails, and adding some ¾ marine plywood to reinforce the deck and give a little extra protection, as well as a way to secure tank straps and the Fat Boy Bandit to the trailer. In the future I want to build up to an enclosed trailer that I can put a nice wrap on the outside for advertising like you did on your truck recently. This way I won’t have the back of a truck permanently tied up where I cannot use if for many other functions of everyday life. That’s one thing I picked up from Mark as well…being a part time roof cleaner he has gotten annoyed with the fact his truck can’t be used for everything else life throws at him because of the permanent equipment mounted in the back. I do try to learn from others experiences where I can.
Anyway, I did hear you about the slush fund. Most of my profits early on are going into building the business/equipment, and then I’ll keep a good percentage of the profits for upgrading equipment, training and advertising/growing the business.
Thank you for the input Mike!
Yes, the Fat Boy Bandit I’m buying is a little less than the price you mentioned. The fact that I don’t own it already isn’t that I’m waiting to buy it, but rather I’m waiting on the owner to be ready to sell it to me. The owner is upgrading to a new system (I forget the exact system) and he said he would sell his rig to me sometime in March or April. I followed up with him via e-mail a day or so ago to see if he has a more solid timeframe in mind so I’ll have then cash on hand when he is ready.
I see what you’re saying about the Tractor Supply Store tanks. I was by the local store this past weekend and they didn’t have any on hand (they only had (1) 35 gallon tank), so either way I’m going to have to wait for the shipping, plus the manager said their tanks are made in China, and the one I’m looking at is made in the USA. Almost every tank I could find online was between 25 and 34 pounds, and the one I’m looking at is 90 pounds, so I’m assuming the extra weight is due to thicker walls and a little sturdier construction? The manager at the Tractor Supply Store said they do not carry straps for any tanks smaller than ~250 gallons and all he could offer me was nylon straps to tie the tank down to a trailer, which doesn’t seem as secure or long lasting as an aluminum band so I moved on to other research.
Thank you for the advice on the Delavan 5850 pumps. They are definitely more budget friendly for me starting out than the Fat Boy, and for 2 gallons per minute less, I can salvage ~$100. I was reading on another forum that Bob disassembles and rebuilds the Devalan 5850 (and other) pumps with aftermarket parts so the parts in the electric motors that commonly fail on the Delavan SH pumps last longer and he gives them a 6 month warranty, which from what I’ve read the manufactures warranty is voided as soon as we pump SH through it so that’s a bonus. Are you using the Delavan pumps direct from the manufacturer or buying them from Bob at Pressure Tek? Do you add a heat sync to help manage the heat? Do you keep your pump in a battery box or other enclosure? I’ve never purchased a pump so I’m asking for more experienced input.
I guess in this case I'll have to ask if everybody trusts the brand Den Hartog/Ace Roto Mold to have quality products?
Troy
I think the system is fine, but my suggestion is mainly for The pump. Make sure you have a backup. I suggested the vertical tanks to save you room....we actually use horizontal. They are both fine.
I have no comment for Tim today.....but tomorrow is another day!
I started out with a 6x12 enclosed trailer. A open trailer is easier to work out of but everything is exposed.
I still have my trailer and after a lot of chems spilled in it, hoses busting on me, my pump, bleach everyware when it came apart,
despite all that I have had it repaired twice since 2009. If you would like more info email me your phone number.
Thank you Eric!
I just sent you a PM with my contact information. My first trailer is of course, due to budget. We only have a soccer mom mini-van at the moment so I'm going to have to put a trailer hitch on and use a trailer as the most cost effective starter solution that will still allow us to use the van to everyday use. Truck/trailer plans beyond that is flexible depending on what information I have on hand from people like yourself who have already walked this path. :0) I was thinking an enclosed trailer would enable me to still have the back of a truck free when I get one, would keep the SH out of the direct sunlight and give me a big broad side that I can advertise on, all while keeping my chemicals and equipment enclosed from the elements and sticky fingers. Of course now that I think about it, keeping the SH enclosed...I'm wondering if it would deteriorate everything enclosed in the trailer too? Would it help to have the inside sprayed with a spray in bed liner coating like the do the truck beds?
We can discuss on the phone, but I know others are watching and learning from this tread so I posted it here as well.
I hadn't thought about it really, but now that you mention it adding brakes to a trailer is something I'd consider a necessicty. I was riding down I-295 with my mom when I was a kid and saw a vehicle pulling a medium sized camper and the traffic slowed suddenly and he had to get on his brakes pretty hard. The trailer must not have had brakes because it just started hopping from side to side, from the left tire to the right over and over, and the harder the driver hit the brakes the further the trailer bounced from side to side and into the adjacent lanes. I don't know how close we truly came to being hit, but it made quite an impression on me. I'll add this to my list of items somewhere under a back up pump and PPE/better ladder if the trailer I buy doesn't already have brakes.
AC