I just received 160' of poly rope (Rope King) from Amazon for about $38. Just noticed that it says "Breaking strength is not considered safe working load (SWL) limit."
Does that mean I had better not use it for harness on roof? I don't plan to lead any horses up there ...
Im in my 3rd season and we have never used a rope for tie off. We use the safety kit in a bucket which costs about $100 with AC's roof anchor rod when we walk on a roof
Troy Layman said
Oct 31, 2014
One of the comments from "Rope King" said 280 pounds breaking strength. If you're tying off so you won't get within 6 feet or so of the edge of the roof it should stop you from going over the side as most of your weight would be on the roof and not hanging on the rope over the side. I'm sure someone can give a better answer but it's better than nothing in the mean time for sure. ;0) I did see another comment saying the rope stretches a lot too.
Tim, is there any fear of damaging pipes using AC's roof anchor? Some are made of metal, and others are made of PVC.
AC Lockyer said
Oct 31, 2014
OSHA is only concerned with 2.5 times the impact load or 3,000 pounds which ever is greater. If the rope is rated then you are OK. If it is not I'd use it for tying down ladders etc.
AC
Vic Irish said
Oct 31, 2014
Tim Teed wrote:
Im in my 3rd season and we have never used a rope for tie off. We use the safety kit in a bucket which costs about $100 with AC's roof anchor rod when we walk on a roof
I have put together a Delta harness, 2 D rings, brake/lanyard and one of AC's roof anchors. Just looking for a suitable rope.
Seems like all I was seeing were 300'+ ropes for sale, and thought this King would work. Being poly I was thinking it is bleach safe.
Guess I better look some more for better rating...
I have another question. Are there any roofs where the Roof Anchor won't work, and we would need a longer line?
I think that my weight plus weight of gear is the impact load, right AC? But 2.5 times that is only 1/6 th of 3K LBS, so I still need something rated for 3K LBs? Can that quality of rope be found in less than 300' lengths? AC, do you sell just the rope?
Hey Tim, Troy and AC, thank you all for your help!
vic
Tim Teed said
Oct 31, 2014
You aren't putting weight on the stack vent to pull yourself up roof. If you slip, it will pull you against roof so that you can catch your balance. It may damage if you slip - but you didn't break any bones, so then it is just fix the stack vent. If unsure just work from ladder - which is what we usually do
Bob Riddick said
Oct 31, 2014
Vic, don't go cheap when it comes to safety. Whether it's your safety, an employees' or your customer's.
I use an outfitter named Outdoor Play. You can find them online. We use rope rated for rock climbers along with harness' and accessories.
These ropes hold up great against the chemicals, as well.
Vic Irish said
Nov 1, 2014
Thank you, Bob! They seem to only have 60 meter or longer (that's almost 200').
J Racenstein has the SWS roof anchorless kit for almost $600, and it has a 75' rope.
That rope is what I want, but it only comes with that kit :)...
Oh well, I have all Winter to find something.
Where do we get the $100 bucket kit that you were talking about, Tim?
Thank you all for your help and advice, we'll get 'er done, someday.
vic
Tim Teed said
Nov 1, 2014
home depot has them
Vic Irish said
Nov 1, 2014
Thank you, Tim!!
That is outstanding.
I won't be putting any nails in peoples' roofs for the temporary anchor, though.
I'd be afraid of causing a leak :)
Thanks again, Sir!
vic
Chad Eneix said
Nov 2, 2014
Vic,
Impact loads can be several times the weight of the person plus gear, because when you fall, the force on the rope multiplies. I used to know some of this math, but don't anymore. It has to do with height of fall, acceleration, weight, etc. Remember, we are using fall positioning systems, and the idea is to set it up such that you don't fall off the roof. Ideally, we don't get on the roof, and this is a moot point, but eventually we will all have to. The gear in a bucket is a good start for cheap, and you can replace many of these for the price of one really nice life safety rope. It must adhere to some standard, I would guess. Just inspect the gear, especially the rope, often. It is inexpensively made, which equals not as durable. Remember we are dragging these ropes across essentially course sandpaper and exposing them to a corrosive.
Some things to know about ropes: Really good life safety ropes like you see AC use are kernmantle ropes. New England Ropes and Bluewater are two major brands. If you look at climbing ropes, that is what they look like. There are two parts, the kern, or the tightly woven outer layer, and the mantle, or the inner strands. The inner layer does most of the work, and the outer layer is there to protect the inner layer. Kernmantle ropes are further broken down into static and dynamic. Static does not stretch and is heavier and stiffer, and is used in commercial, industrial, and rescue situations, dynamic is what sport climbers use, and stretches to absorb shock, and is meant for multiple shock loads (falls.) That is why climbers do not have shock absorbing lanyards and commercial users do. The ropes in the bucket kits are twisted or braided rope, not as durable. Persoanlly, I did not know this type of rope was allowed for fall protection.
We use static, kernmantle, New England ropes, Sala harnesses and shock lanyards, steel locking carabiners, and Petzl ascenders. I bought these years ago for a swing stage job on a 7 story hospital, before I was Soft washing. I want the protection of the outer jacket on the more expensive ropes. I don't like the stretch of dynamic ropes, I want to know my solod "stopping" point. I also trust steel carabiners, because aluminum ones become brittle when dropped, and employees drop them a lot. We use figure-8 knots, not bowlines. I have not had an inspection sheet, but will implement this next year.
Sorry to geek out on you guys. All my knowledge of this comes from Fire Department Technical Rescue training. Our standards are ridiculously rigid. For example 6000-10,000 lb ropes, if a rope is shock loaded, it's junked, if an aluminum caribiner is dropped, it's junk, we have to have a rope inspection program, etc.
I just looked up the OSHA standard, rope type is not specified, nor is knot type, or carabiner material. As AC said above, if it's rated, you should be good, unless you have an anvil in your pocket. One thing it does say as I read it, (essentially) is that carabiners should be locking-type. It also indicates that ropes should be inspected before each use, and that ropes that are shock loaded should be junked. For right now I'm going to keep my gear the same. I may try some cheaper (but still rated) rope next year and see how it holds up. If I start running multiple crews I would be open to a little less expensive gear as long as it didn't compromise safety.
Vic Irish said
Nov 2, 2014
Thank you, Chad. That is really good information. Good to know.
I understood it all, I think, except for the "if the rope is shock loaded, it's junked." What is shock loaded?
Now I understand what the Werner people meant when they said that the harness in that bucket kit is shot if it is ever sprung.
Are all ropes that way, too? After they save a life are they replaced?
I cleaned a new customers windows today. Told her I should be ready to softwash next Spring.
Her house is really dusty. We have a lot of windstorms and in spite of the agriculture, we are still in the middle of desert.
She is interested, and I'm going to have plenty Terra Wash on hand :)
I'm going to be so-o-o ready...
vic
P.S.- Chad, thank you for your service in the Fire Department. I appreciate your expertise.
Chad Eneix said
Nov 3, 2014
Shock loaded would be if you had a significant fall. This should not happen to us on roofs, because if you fall, it would be to your knees or rolling a foot or two, staying on the roof. If you went over the edge and "free fell" a few feet and were caught by the rope, it has been shock loaded. Or, if the shock absorbing harness lanyard is sprung, your rope has been shock loaded.
I have been thinking about my rope/system inspection program I will implement next year. So far I have come up with check boxes for a daily pre-inspection, daily inventory of bag, and a weekly washing.
Curious about what others do; bleachwash rinse of ropes and equipment daily? That would be another check box. So far it's what I have been doing.
Vic Irish said
Nov 3, 2014
Chad Eneix wrote:
"Shock loaded would be if you had a significant fall. This should not happen to us on roofs, because if you fall, it would be to your knees or rolling a foot or two, staying on the roof. If you went over the edge and "free fell" a few feet and were caught by the rope, it has been shock loaded. Or, if the shock absorbing harness lanyard is sprung, your rope has been shock loaded."
I have been thinking about my rope/system inspection program I will implement next year. So far I have come up with check boxes for a daily pre-inspection, daily inventory of bag, and a weekly washing.
Curious about what others do; bleachwash rinse of ropes and equipment daily? That would be another check box. So far it's what I have been doing.
Thank you, Chad. Makes a lot sense.
I'm curious if one can tell if a rope has been shock loaded by looking at it. Frayed, discolored, or disfigured in any way?
I just received 160' of poly rope (Rope King) from Amazon for about $38. Just noticed that it says
"Breaking strength is not considered safe working load (SWL) limit."
Does that mean I had better not use it for harness on roof? I don't plan to lead any horses up there
...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005TLWGAW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Still learning,
vic
Im in my 3rd season and we have never used a rope for tie off. We use the safety kit in a bucket which costs about $100 with AC's roof anchor rod when we walk on a roof
Tim, is there any fear of damaging pipes using AC's roof anchor? Some are made of metal, and others are made of PVC.
AC
I have put together a Delta harness, 2 D rings, brake/lanyard and one of AC's roof anchors. Just looking for a suitable rope.
Seems like all I was seeing were 300'+ ropes for sale, and thought this King would work. Being poly I was thinking it is bleach safe.
Guess I better look some more for better rating...
I have another question. Are there any roofs where the Roof Anchor won't work, and we would need a longer line?
I think that my weight plus weight of gear is the impact load, right AC? But 2.5 times that is only 1/6 th of 3K LBS, so I still need something rated for 3K LBs? Can that quality of rope be found in less than 300' lengths? AC, do you sell just the rope?
Hey Tim, Troy and AC, thank you all for your help!
vic
You aren't putting weight on the stack vent to pull yourself up roof. If you slip, it will pull you against roof so that you can catch your balance. It may damage if you slip - but you didn't break any bones, so then it is just fix the stack vent. If unsure just work from ladder - which is what we usually do
Vic, don't go cheap when it comes to safety. Whether it's your safety, an employees' or your customer's.
I use an outfitter named Outdoor Play. You can find them online. We use rope rated for rock climbers along with harness' and accessories.
These ropes hold up great against the chemicals, as well.
Thank you, Bob! They seem to only have 60 meter or longer (that's almost 200').
J Racenstein has the SWS roof anchorless kit for almost $600, and it has a 75' rope.
That rope is what I want, but it only comes with that kit :)...
Oh well, I have all Winter to find something.
Where do we get the $100 bucket kit that you were talking about, Tim?
Thank you all for your help and advice, we'll get 'er done, someday.
vic
home depot has them
Thank you, Tim!!
That is outstanding.
I won't be putting any nails in peoples' roofs for the temporary anchor, though.
I'd be afraid of causing a leak :)
Thanks again, Sir!
vic
Impact loads can be several times the weight of the person plus gear, because when you fall, the force on the rope multiplies. I used to know some of this math, but don't anymore. It has to do with height of fall, acceleration, weight, etc. Remember, we are using fall positioning systems, and the idea is to set it up such that you don't fall off the roof. Ideally, we don't get on the roof, and this is a moot point, but eventually we will all have to. The gear in a bucket is a good start for cheap, and you can replace many of these for the price of one really nice life safety rope. It must adhere to some standard, I would guess. Just inspect the gear, especially the rope, often. It is inexpensively made, which equals not as durable. Remember we are dragging these ropes across essentially course sandpaper and exposing them to a corrosive.
Some things to know about ropes: Really good life safety ropes like you see AC use are kernmantle ropes. New England Ropes and Bluewater are two major brands. If you look at climbing ropes, that is what they look like. There are two parts, the kern, or the tightly woven outer layer, and the mantle, or the inner strands. The inner layer does most of the work, and the outer layer is there to protect the inner layer. Kernmantle ropes are further broken down into static and dynamic. Static does not stretch and is heavier and stiffer, and is used in commercial, industrial, and rescue situations, dynamic is what sport climbers use, and stretches to absorb shock, and is meant for multiple shock loads (falls.) That is why climbers do not have shock absorbing lanyards and commercial users do. The ropes in the bucket kits are twisted or braided rope, not as durable. Persoanlly, I did not know this type of rope was allowed for fall protection.
We use static, kernmantle, New England ropes, Sala harnesses and shock lanyards, steel locking carabiners, and Petzl ascenders. I bought these years ago for a swing stage job on a 7 story hospital, before I was Soft washing. I want the protection of the outer jacket on the more expensive ropes. I don't like the stretch of dynamic ropes, I want to know my solod "stopping" point. I also trust steel carabiners, because aluminum ones become brittle when dropped, and employees drop them a lot. We use figure-8 knots, not bowlines. I have not had an inspection sheet, but will implement this next year.
Sorry to geek out on you guys. All my knowledge of this comes from Fire Department Technical Rescue training. Our standards are ridiculously rigid. For example 6000-10,000 lb ropes, if a rope is shock loaded, it's junked, if an aluminum caribiner is dropped, it's junk, we have to have a rope inspection program, etc.
I just looked up the OSHA standard, rope type is not specified, nor is knot type, or carabiner material. As AC said above, if it's rated, you should be good, unless you have an anvil in your pocket. One thing it does say as I read it, (essentially) is that carabiners should be locking-type. It also indicates that ropes should be inspected before each use, and that ropes that are shock loaded should be junked. For right now I'm going to keep my gear the same. I may try some cheaper (but still rated) rope next year and see how it holds up. If I start running multiple crews I would be open to a little less expensive gear as long as it didn't compromise safety.
Thank you, Chad. That is really good information. Good to know.
I understood it all, I think, except for the "if the rope is shock loaded, it's junked." What is shock loaded?
Now I understand what the Werner people meant when they said that the harness in that bucket kit is shot if it is ever sprung.
Are all ropes that way, too? After they save a life are they replaced?
I cleaned a new customers windows today. Told her I should be ready to softwash next Spring.
Her house is really dusty. We have a lot of windstorms and in spite of the agriculture, we are still in the middle of desert.
She is interested, and I'm going to have plenty Terra Wash on hand :)
I'm going to be so-o-o ready...
vic
P.S.- Chad, thank you for your service in the Fire Department. I appreciate your expertise.
I have been thinking about my rope/system inspection program I will implement next year. So far I have come up with check boxes for a daily pre-inspection, daily inventory of bag, and a weekly washing.
Curious about what others do; bleachwash rinse of ropes and equipment daily? That would be another check box. So far it's what I have been doing.
Thank you, Chad. Makes a lot sense.
I'm curious if one can tell if a rope has been shock loaded by looking at it. Frayed, discolored, or disfigured in any way?