Picked up this job cleaning marble from a contractor. Start Monday. Never worked on marble, but don't see why it would be any different than cement. So I'm thinking 4% mixture so do the trick. Sound about right? What about Roof Snot to help it cling to the ballusters? What kind of dwell time would you think it will take the SH to do it's thing?
Contractor threw a curve at me in the pricing. He wanted a per day price...which I have not done before. I ended up submitting:
$80.00 per hour/plus expenses (which I inflated somewhat to be safe)...two day minumum...$80.00 per hour if additional days are needed.
So the two day minimum will come to $1280.00. I should walk away with at least $1000.00 after expenses, and really should be done in a day if the chemicals do their job. Do you think I went in a little low? The scope of work only entails the rail system/stairs, pillars where needed, limited spots on the actual walls of the home. It is not the entire house from top to bottom.
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Friday 11th of October 2013 04:22:14 PM
If I were you I would have said 1500 per day. or 200 per hr. I think you definitely short changed yourself their. That size house those people have the money to pay for great service. Is that roof dirty or is it just the picture?
-- Edited by Michael Derose on Friday 11th of October 2013 09:59:30 PM
Michael Derose said
Oct 11, 2013
also a 3 to 4 % mix will clean that along with some f9 for the rust at a 1-3 ratio.
-- Edited by Michael Derose on Friday 11th of October 2013 10:01:02 PM
Hank Timmermann said
Oct 12, 2013
Jeff,
I'm curious to see the feedback on this one. I wish I could help. Do a test first?...if you have not already.
Hank
AC Lockyer said
Oct 12, 2013
Marble is very specific. Specialty cleaning. Also your low pricing may hurt the community.
AC
Jeff Thompson said
Oct 12, 2013
Thanks Mike. My understanding here the house was a foreclosure and it was bought to to rehabbed and flipped. Not sure the pot full of gold is in these guys hands, they just want to flip it. I may have short changed myself, however I wanted the job for a couple reasons and got it. First and foremost the experience of cleaning marble.....in a condition such as this. I feel if I can clean this and do a great job, I won't hesitate in asking $200 an hour next time.
3%-4% is where I thought I should be and I do have F9 for the rust.
Jeff Thompson said
Oct 12, 2013
It certainly is not my intent to lowball and hurt the community AC. Chalk it up to inexperience if you like. I approached it as a flatwork job and I charge .24 sq ft. I'm only cleaning approximately 3000-4000 sq ft.
Why is marble a specific, specialty cleaning? Is there additional steps or care I should be aware of?
Michael Derose said
Oct 12, 2013
Jeff I don't think your hurting the community but if you get 1200 for the job and you are done in one day and you do it yourself then I would call it a win
Brandon Vaughn said
Oct 12, 2013
Take lots of pictures Jeff and get a stellar hand-written testimonial.
It may be short on price, but hopefully you can make up for that in experience as well as marketing to others who really have the money to make their marble look like new again.
I've never personally cleaned marble, but from what I've heard others who have cleaned it, they reported no issues.
Sure pricing low can hurt the community, but only if it's a habit in my opinion. Let's be honest here - we've all low-balled a job here or there, especially with inexperience. ;)
For what it's worth, I personally NEVER let a customer get hourly or daily pricing out of me. I spin it as a protection for them. "I could give you hourly or daily pricing, but that could end up costing you more money in the end. I price my jobs to get them DONE. Flat rates are for your protection and guarantee that no hard feelings are left behind after my job is done - period. If anyone pays more for not estimating time correctly, it's me - not you."
In my 16 years in business, we've never had a contractor refuse to let us price a flat rate - provided you push back at them.
Brandon Vaughn said
Oct 12, 2013
Hey, you might want to contact Craig @ F9 about his experience with marble. From my contractor days, I know marble is a calcareous stone (composed mostly of calcium carbonate) and can be very reactive to acids.
Before you spray F9, definitely check in with Craig.
AC Lockyer said
Oct 12, 2013
marble needs to be cleaned with specific chemicals and then sealed afterwards there are companies that specialize in Marble & I know from the years of work we did with Disney marble was a very picky thing so be very very careful.
also just be real careful with your pricing because from what I understand marble is so specialized that if you price it low it'll devalue the rest of your services.
AC
Chris Gunther said
Oct 13, 2013
AC is right. Marble is a relatively soft and porus stone and should be cleaned with specific chems. A sodium hypochlorite solution will clean the marble, but the salt left behind can deteriorate the stone. A calcium hypo solution may be the better option, or look into the specific cleaners.
Mario Ciottariello said
Oct 13, 2013
Let us know what happens. thanks
Barry Landis said
Oct 13, 2013
I was installing a marble tile floor on a vacation home along the Chesapeake a few years back, I left the marble tiles sit on the floor over the weekend (uninstalled). It happens that that weekend the Chesapeake flooded and the water entered the house and soaked the tiles. When everything receded and and returned to normal I went back to install the tile. No matter how long I tried rinsing and cleaning the tile, the salt from the Bay water would return and dry on the face of the tile. I gave up and had to purchase new tile. I would be cautious using SH for that reason.
Jeff Thompson said
Oct 13, 2013
Thanks everyone. Once again the value of this community is evident.
AC - I understand what you are trying to get across in regards of pricing. Makes complete sense and I'll keep that in mind.
Chris and Barry - noted on your concerns using SH. All my research this weekend indicates using SH is an acceptable method. CH I would agree may be a better option. But since I have never used it yet and the job is tomorrow, I can't go that route. Good reason right there to become well versed in both applications. Been putting it on the back burner but will bring CH on board next season.
Brandon - thanks for the heads up on F9. Information I could find indicates it may etch a polished marble surface. I'll run it by the contractor. This marble is in no way polished, at least not anymore. May not be an issue. I'll also get with Craig.
I also found that using Ammonia seems to be recommended even higher than SH for biological stains on stone. Gets me wondering if ammonia would be good for us on roofs and houses? What's its effect on plants? I'll look into that a little more down the road. Just thought I'd throw that out there and get some feedback.
Thanks again. I'll let you know whether it was a good experience or not.
The job went well. Could I have got more more money, probably, but what I did get some valuable experience in a different type of material. Shook out to be $100 per hour after expenses.
Used 4% solution and it worked as expected on the mold/algae.
There were only two problems I encountered (see picture 3 & 4).
The pillar with the stain. F9 nor SH had any impact on that long rust looking stain. Contractor had some stone guys look at it while they were there and they weren't sure what to do for it except to replace it or sand it. There is some thought that it might be staining from an acid someone may have used to clean it before.
The other picture of a stain above the window wouldn't budge either. Even after I shot it with 12% out of desperation and let it sit for an hour while I did the railings up top. That one bothers me the most since I feel it's organic and should have died off with the SH. They are looking to soda blast that area.
Even with those two issues I could not take care of, at the end of the day the contractor was amazed at the difference of the marble from when I started.
Thanks again for everyone's help and comments.
ps. sorry for all the edits...the pictures were not falling in order of before and after
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:06:34 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:08:12 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:08:51 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:11:08 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:12:48 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:14:25 PM
Sweet job Jeff. Nice to get that under your belt with minimal problems. I wonder if a poultice would get that rust stain out?
"Iron or rust stains are orange to brown in color and follow the shape of the staining object such as nails, bolts, screws, cans, flower pots, metal furniture. Copper and bronze stains appear as green or muddy-brown and result from the action of moisture on nearby or embedded bronze, copper or brass items. Metal stains must be removed with a poultice. (See website on Using a Poultice – www.marble-institute.com/consumers/poultices.cfm. Deep-seated, rustystains are extremely difficult to remove and the stone may be permanently stained."
- Quote From Marble Institute of America
Jeff Thompson said
Oct 18, 2013
Yeah Brandon. I was on the same site doing some research over the weekend before the job. The contractor wasn't worried about it so I didn't start trying a bunch of stuff I have never tried before. Figured he was happy with the way the overall job turned out, why tarnish his happiness with failing to get the stains out. A lot of the marble needs repairing, he will just add those pieces into the job.
Thanks again for all the input from everyone. Getting things packed up and heading back to the job site....picked up the neighbors house to wash. She wandered over the other day while I was working and started asking questions about washing a house. She was concerned that pressure washing was not good for her hardi board siding. After I explained the softwash process that is all she needed to hear.
Tim Teed said
Oct 18, 2013
make sure test surface with SH before you proceed. It can take 15 minutes for paint to change color
Jeff Thompson said
Oct 19, 2013
Thanks for the reminder Tim. Did my test, all was good. Customer happy.
AC Lockyer said
Oct 22, 2013
Jeff Thompson wrote:
Thanks for the reminder Tim. Did my test, all was good. Customer happy.
When all is said and done and all POVs stated isnt this really all that matters :)
AC
Bill Booz said
Oct 24, 2013
The rust stains are a water permeation problem, they need to fix the leak above. Soda blasting is a good call on the GC's part. If you own a powerwasher and are going to get more stone projects with hard deposits look into a wet-sandblast attachment and a brick scraper.
Jeff Thompson said
Oct 25, 2013
Bill Booz wrote:
The rust stains are a water permeation problem, they need to fix the leak above. Soda blasting is a good call on the GC's part. If you own a powerwasher and are going to get more stone projects with hard deposits look into a wet-sandblast attachment and a brick scraper.
Thanks Bill. I do own a powerwasher and will look into these attachments. Never know what will come down the line. It was a good experience and would for sure quote more stone jobs. Will be good to have the proper tools.
Darryl Freeman said
Mar 10, 2016
My 2 cents on this old post.
Check out the Wadu Attachment.
Its a basic sandblast pot intended for soda blasting and attaches to your existing power washer.
If you have an opportunity to use one, it will easily pay for itself on first job. About $250. pr/hr for fire remediation, or 2/3 the price of what you are fixing.
These photos are from a recent fire remediation job where the Wadu was used, once the melted plastic was removed.
F9 eflo will work on that rust then tell homeowner to fix the problem. That mix will work fine at 3% then rinse should look great. I say a good hr rate is 200-250
Chris Mozick said
Mar 14, 2016
The f9 Eflo is good on marble and rocks
Jeff Thompson said
Mar 14, 2016
Chris Mozick wrote:
F9 eflo will work on that rust then tell homeowner to fix the problem. That mix will work fine at 3% then rinse should look great. I say a good hr rate is 200-250
This is an old post. Just got the notification it was active again.
F9 did not touch it.....at all. Didn't lighten it didn't darken it, I mean it just ran off and never changed one bit.
The GC was going to look into soda blasting it. I'm sure it was eventually taken care of one way or another, the house was being totally rehabbed, but not sure what process took care of it.
Picked up this job cleaning marble from a contractor. Start Monday. Never worked on marble, but don't see why it would be any different than cement. So I'm thinking 4% mixture so do the trick. Sound about right? What about Roof Snot to help it cling to the ballusters? What kind of dwell time would you think it will take the SH to do it's thing?
Contractor threw a curve at me in the pricing. He wanted a per day price...which I have not done before. I ended up submitting:
$80.00 per hour/plus expenses (which I inflated somewhat to be safe)...two day minumum...$80.00 per hour if additional days are needed.
So the two day minimum will come to $1280.00. I should walk away with at least $1000.00 after expenses, and really should be done in a day if the chemicals do their job. Do you think I went in a little low? The scope of work only entails the rail system/stairs, pillars where needed, limited spots on the actual walls of the home. It is not the entire house from top to bottom.
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Friday 11th of October 2013 04:22:14 PM
If I were you I would have said 1500 per day. or 200 per hr. I think you definitely short changed yourself their. That size house those people have the money to pay for great service. Is that roof dirty or is it just the picture?
-- Edited by Michael Derose on Friday 11th of October 2013 09:59:30 PM
also a 3 to 4 % mix will clean that along with some f9 for the rust at a 1-3 ratio.
-- Edited by Michael Derose on Friday 11th of October 2013 10:01:02 PM
I'm curious to see the feedback on this one. I wish I could help. Do a test first?...if you have not already.
Hank
AC
Thanks Mike. My understanding here the house was a foreclosure and it was bought to to rehabbed and flipped. Not sure the pot full of gold is in these guys hands, they just want to flip it. I may have short changed myself, however I wanted the job for a couple reasons and got it. First and foremost the experience of cleaning marble.....in a condition such as this. I feel if I can clean this and do a great job, I won't hesitate in asking $200 an hour next time.
3%-4% is where I thought I should be and I do have F9 for the rust.
It certainly is not my intent to lowball and hurt the community AC. Chalk it up to inexperience if you like. I approached it as a flatwork job and I charge .24 sq ft. I'm only cleaning approximately 3000-4000 sq ft.
Why is marble a specific, specialty cleaning? Is there additional steps or care I should be aware of?
Take lots of pictures Jeff and get a stellar hand-written testimonial.
It may be short on price, but hopefully you can make up for that in experience as well as marketing to others who really have the money to make their marble look like new again.
I've never personally cleaned marble, but from what I've heard others who have cleaned it, they reported no issues.
Sure pricing low can hurt the community, but only if it's a habit in my opinion. Let's be honest here - we've all low-balled a job here or there, especially with inexperience. ;)
For what it's worth, I personally NEVER let a customer get hourly or daily pricing out of me. I spin it as a protection for them. "I could give you hourly or daily pricing, but that could end up costing you more money in the end. I price my jobs to get them DONE. Flat rates are for your protection and guarantee that no hard feelings are left behind after my job is done - period. If anyone pays more for not estimating time correctly, it's me - not you."
In my 16 years in business, we've never had a contractor refuse to let us price a flat rate - provided you push back at them.
Hey, you might want to contact Craig @ F9 about his experience with marble. From my contractor days, I know marble is a calcareous stone (composed mostly of calcium carbonate) and can be very reactive to acids.
Before you spray F9, definitely check in with Craig.
also just be real careful with your pricing because from what I understand marble is so specialized that if you price it low it'll devalue the rest of your services.
AC
AC - I understand what you are trying to get across in regards of pricing. Makes complete sense and I'll keep that in mind.
Chris and Barry - noted on your concerns using SH. All my research this weekend indicates using SH is an acceptable method. CH I would agree may be a better option. But since I have never used it yet and the job is tomorrow, I can't go that route. Good reason right there to become well versed in both applications. Been putting it on the back burner but will bring CH on board next season.
Brandon - thanks for the heads up on F9. Information I could find indicates it may etch a polished marble surface. I'll run it by the contractor. This marble is in no way polished, at least not anymore. May not be an issue. I'll also get with Craig.
I also found that using Ammonia seems to be recommended even higher than SH for biological stains on stone. Gets me wondering if ammonia would be good for us on roofs and houses? What's its effect on plants? I'll look into that a little more down the road. Just thought I'd throw that out there and get some feedback.
Thanks again. I'll let you know whether it was a good experience or not.
Jeff
Look in to using Syn Clean HD for that job www.enviromfg.com/our_syntec.htm
The job went well. Could I have got more more money, probably, but what I did get some valuable experience in a different type of material. Shook out to be $100 per hour after expenses.
Used 4% solution and it worked as expected on the mold/algae.
There were only two problems I encountered (see picture 3 & 4).
The pillar with the stain. F9 nor SH had any impact on that long rust looking stain. Contractor had some stone guys look at it while they were there and they weren't sure what to do for it except to replace it or sand it. There is some thought that it might be staining from an acid someone may have used to clean it before.
The other picture of a stain above the window wouldn't budge either. Even after I shot it with 12% out of desperation and let it sit for an hour while I did the railings up top. That one bothers me the most since I feel it's organic and should have died off with the SH. They are looking to soda blast that area.
Even with those two issues I could not take care of, at the end of the day the contractor was amazed at the difference of the marble from when I started.
Thanks again for everyone's help and comments.
ps. sorry for all the edits...the pictures were not falling in order of before and after
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:06:34 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:08:12 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:08:51 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:11:08 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:12:48 PM
-- Edited by Jeff Thompson on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:14:25 PM
Sweet job Jeff. Nice to get that under your belt with minimal problems. I wonder if a poultice would get that rust stain out?
"Iron or rust stains are orange to brown in color and follow the shape of the staining object such as nails, bolts, screws, cans, flower pots, metal furniture. Copper and bronze stains appear as green or muddy-brown and result from the action of moisture on nearby or embedded bronze, copper or brass items. Metal stains must be removed with a poultice. (See website on Using a Poultice –
www.marble-institute.com/consumers/poultices.cfm. Deep-seated, rustystains are extremely difficult to remove and the stone may be permanently stained."
- Quote From Marble Institute of America
Thanks again for all the input from everyone. Getting things packed up and heading back to the job site....picked up the neighbors house to wash. She wandered over the other day while I was working and started asking questions about washing a house. She was concerned that pressure washing was not good for her hardi board siding. After I explained the softwash process that is all she needed to hear.
make sure test surface with SH before you proceed. It can take 15 minutes for paint to change color
When all is said and done and all POVs stated isnt this really all that matters :)
AC
Thanks Bill. I do own a powerwasher and will look into these attachments. Never know what will come down the line. It was a good experience and would for sure quote more stone jobs. Will be good to have the proper tools.
My 2 cents on this old post.
Check out the Wadu Attachment.
Its a basic sandblast pot intended for soda blasting and attaches to your existing power washer.
If you have an opportunity to use one, it will easily pay for itself on first job. About $250. pr/hr for fire remediation, or 2/3 the price of what you are fixing.
These photos are from a recent fire remediation job where the Wadu was used, once the melted plastic was removed.
AC
This is an old post. Just got the notification it was active again.
F9 did not touch it.....at all. Didn't lighten it didn't darken it, I mean it just ran off and never changed one bit.
The GC was going to look into soda blasting it. I'm sure it was eventually taken care of one way or another, the house was being totally rehabbed, but not sure what process took care of it.