I would like to hear from folks using there softwash system to apply de-icing products? I am interested in offering this service in the winter months to help keep things moving and reduce down time. I know some of you guys are fortunate not to have to deal with snow and ice.
How many uses are there for your softwash equipment? I am also looking at applying a dust contol product (Calcium Chloride).
Chris Madden said
Nov 24, 2011
Hey Dan,
I have been researching this for a few months. There is tons of info on equipment, delivery systems, and different products. I'll share what I have found.
I originally was looking into a "Glycol" deicer. They are VERY expensive in general, and when you add shipping on a 275gal. tote it is out of the question for your typical residential driveway, or commercial parking lots, especially here in the South.
There are Many, Many, Many companies that sell a product for deicing. There are salt brines, salt brine variants, calcium chlorides, Magnesium Chlorides, Potassium Chlorides, Calcium Magnesium Acetate "beet Juice" etc, etc. Here is a small list and links to some products.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and there are many more, but this gives you a good start.
I found that the most cost effective product is making your own Salt Brine Mix. Salt brine itself is effective to somewhere around 10-20deg. F. A salt and Calcium Chloride brine is effective down to about -25deg F.
My personal opinion is that the truck mounted "boom" sprayers should be for parking lots and commercial work. I think my existing truck mounted spray rig, as anyone elses is perfect for residential driveways, walkways, and commercial storefront walkways. I can very easily pull up to a house, grab my wand and pull what hose I need up to a clients front door and spray the walkway and the entire driveway, reel up the hose, and drive off in just a few minutes. Same for any commercial storefront walkways.
Well this should be enough info to tie you guys up for a week or so in reading and brainstorming. There is much much more info, but this should get anyone interested started in the right direction. If anyone needs help in getting started let me know, I will be glad to help.
Chris
Chris Madden said
Dec 3, 2011
Ok it is starting to get colder here, so I am starting on my Salt Brine Maker. Here are some pics of what I have purchased so far.
1. I scored an old 6.5hp pressure washer from the local auction last week for $50. Motor is a B&S and runs great. Took the pump off and tossed it.
2. I bought a 2" trash pump. I did not buy the expensive Poly/EPDM chemical pump, because I have a use for the Cast Iron one come spring, and can not use the Poly. I have the 2yr replacement warrenty on it
3. Bought a 275 gal. tote
4. Bought 2" and 3/4" PVC. I will reduce from 2" down to 3/4" to create some pressure and probably run through a 3/4" agitator. The more agitation the better.
This is a good experiment for y'all up north to do. If we can truly use a SoftWash System as a dual season piece of equipment than that would be huge. I am sadly here in Florida and can not test that here.
AC
Dan Signor said
Dec 4, 2011
Chris I can't wait to see how it works out. I do not have the time this year for the brine making but if it works we will build one over the summer. I need to find gylcol, I have someone that wants to work with me this year with plow trucks.
Chris Madden said
Dec 4, 2011
Hey Dan,
I should have this completed this week. Then I will make brine in the "brine making tote" and transfer to other totes for storage. When it gets colder I can run up your way with a tank full of brine and you can try it out around your area. You can see how it works for you.
I got to work on it some today.
1. Got some 2" suction and discharge hose and some 2" cam lock connectors. The hose is not for the brine maker, but I may use it to transfer from tank to tank etc.
2. Added cam lock quick connects on pump.
3. Cut the top off of tote so I can dump rock salt and Calcium Chloride into tank.
4. Started to plumb the agitation part of the unit. Went from 2" pvc down to 3/4" pvc to a 1/2" tee at the bottom of the tank for agitation. The center line will have the grey agitator added.
5. filled it with 125 Gal. of water.
I will finish this week and see how my agitation works. If all is well, I will add 75 more gal. of water, salt, and CC, and make some Brine.
Looks great! I'm really pumped by the opportunities with this system! Give me a call one night this week if you get it done.
Gary Wilkerson said
Dec 4, 2011
Hey guys, is the brine a snow and ice melter or do you use it as an ice preventitive? That seems like it would be a great service to offer to your client base and an "ice breaker"to pick-up new ones.lol
Chris Madden said
Dec 5, 2011
Gary Wilkerson wrote:
Hey guys, is the brine a snow and ice melter or do you use it as an ice preventitive? That seems like it would be a great service to offer to your client base and an "ice breaker"to pick-up new ones.lol
Gary,
I will be using it in an Anti-Icing capacity first and as an ice melter if need be . When this brine is on a surface it will melt off around 1" of snow fall and keep ice from forming and creating a bond to the surface. When you have more than 1" of snowfall you can go back and apply onto the snow, it will melt off another inch or so.
For those that plow driveways, it keeps the snow from bonding and forming ice. The driveways will be clear down to pavement. You could never get it that clear by just plowing.
So to answer your question, it can be used as both an ice melter and preventive.
We are offering different services so we can get in front of people, to start creating that client/contractor relationship and trust. We offer and market window cleaning, as this opens the door to potential clients that would never have called for a house wash or roof cleaning.
The anti icing is another one of those services to help "open" some of those doors.
Chris
AC Lockyer said
Dec 5, 2011
Chris,
You are planning on making your soft wash equipment a dual season service by spraying the salt brine during the winter, correct?
AC
Chris Madden said
Dec 5, 2011
AC Lockyer wrote:
Chris,
You are planning on making your soft wash equipment a dual season service by spraying the salt brine during the winter, correct?
AC
Yes, I want to make the most use of my investment, My spray equipment. Everyone's systems are capable of spraying brine, and it will keep the money coming in, as opposed to letting the rig sit all winter. This is something EVERYONE that softwashes can do, provided you have cold or icy winters.
The SOFT WASH Systems we use will spray salt brine without modification.
I am currently making a quick and dirty salt brine maker based on one I found online (see attached).
If all goes well, I will make a larger unit next year out of true poly tanks, probably 500gal. batches with 2500gal storage tank. Right now I am just putting something together to get some brine made, and see how receptive my market is.
looking good Chris. I'm impressed with both your ingenuity and fabricating ability. If you and AC teamed up...........
Chris Madden said
Nov 23, 2012
Danny Cronauer wrote:
I purchased a snow plow for this season, I have yet to purchase a salter, which makes salting very easy from the back of the truck. My question to Chris would be, what separates your soft-wash and brine from my salter/ fertilizer spreader, or just walking around with a jug of quick joe and throwing it on the side walks. I love the idea, and I would like to implement in my system. But how does it beat the old system?
Thanks,
Dan
Dan,
Brine is just another option to salt. To purchase a salter you will spend approx. $800-$3500
depending on the size of the unit. If you already have tanks mounted on your truck you can
add a gravity or pump system (pump is already on truck) for approx. $200-$300.
100 Gal of brine will cover 1 acre of area, and either prevent or melt off 1" of ice or snow.
100 Gal of brine weighs approx. 1000lbs.
Depending on your application (how you set up your spreader) it takes 1000-2000lbs of salt
per acre.
At 2am I would rather pump 1000 lbs (100gal) of liquid into a tank on the truck than fight
with trying to get 1000-2000lbs of salt into a hopper on the truck.
Both Salt spreading and Brine spraying are effective. They are both very capable solutions
to an Ice problem. If you go to Any plow forum, you will see a debate of salt vs brine.
In my opinion, if you have an investment in a SoftWash System, make use of the money
already spent, and use it in the winter if you can.
I have to run, I'll add more latter.
Chris
-- Edited by Chris Madden on Friday 23rd of November 2012 05:49:45 PM
Hank Timmermann said
Nov 23, 2012
Chris Madden wrote:
AC Lockyer wrote:
Chris,
You are planning on making your soft wash equipment a dual season service by spraying the salt brine during the winter, correct?
AC
Yes, I want to make the most use of my investment, My spray equipment. Everyone's systems are capable of spraying brine, and it will keep the money coming in, as opposed to letting the rig sit all winter. This is something EVERYONE that softwashes can do, provided you have cold or icy winters.
The SOFT WASH Systems we use will spray salt brine without modification.
I am currently making a quick and dirty salt brine maker based on one I found online (see attached).
If all goes well, I will make a larger unit next year out of true poly tanks, probably 500gal. batches with 2500gal storage tank. Right now I am just putting something together to get some brine made, and see how receptive my market is.
Chris
Chris,
With winter just around the corner up here in northeast, PA I was wondering how this worked out for you.
Hank
AC Lockyer said
Nov 23, 2012
Chris,
You should bring the brine tank to Softwashapolooza.
AC
Danny Cronauer said
Nov 23, 2012
I purchased a snow plow for this season, I have yet to purchase a salter, which makes salting very easy from the back of the truck. My question to Chris would be, what separates your soft-wash and brine from my salter/ fertilizer spreader, or just walking around with a jug of quick joe and throwing it on the side walks. I love the idea, and I would like to implement in my system. But how does it beat the old system?
Thanks,
Dan
Chris Madden said
Nov 23, 2012
waxman18324 wrote:
Chris Madden wrote:
AC Lockyer wrote:
Chris,
You are planning on making your soft wash equipment a dual season service by spraying the salt brine during the winter, correct?
AC
Yes, I want to make the most use of my investment, My spray equipment. Everyone's systems are capable of spraying brine, and it will keep the money coming in, as opposed to letting the rig sit all winter. This is something EVERYONE that softwashes can do, provided you have cold or icy winters.
The SOFT WASH Systems we use will spray salt brine without modification.
I am currently making a quick and dirty salt brine maker based on one I found online (see attached).
If all goes well, I will make a larger unit next year out of true poly tanks, probably 500gal. batches with 2500gal storage tank. Right now I am just putting something together to get some brine made, and see how receptive my market is.
Chris
Chris,
With winter just around the corner up here in northeast, PA I was wondering how this worked out for you.
Hank
We ended up with a very warm winter, last year, so I was not able to market the service.
The salt brine is not new, MANY companies up north use brine as opposed to salt.
Chris
Hank Timmermann said
Nov 23, 2012
Chris,
Thanks for your valuable input. Dan and I will have to get together on this. He's one hour west of my shop and we work together well.
Hank
Danny Cronauer said
Nov 24, 2012
That sounds pretty good chris, since I already have all the setup, I would just need to hook up a fan tip to the back of the truck.
AC Lockyer said
Nov 24, 2012
I think a Reese mount spray bar would be awesome. If yall are interested we could have an aluminum one done with 4 spray heads with a nice 8' reach. Just lock it in place, QD your wand onto it, start your pump and spray away.
AC
Chris Madden said
Nov 24, 2012
AC Lockyer wrote:
I think a Reese mount spray bar would be awesome. If yall are interested we could have an aluminum one done with 4 spray heads with a nice 8' reach. Just lock it in place, QD your wand onto it, start your pump and spray away.
AC
+1
If you do driveways or parking lots, this is the way to go.
You will need an inline solenoid with a remote to turn the system
on and off. I have alot of ideas for a good working system.
Chris
Matt Lancaster said
Nov 24, 2012
I am already in the plow biz in PA and was considering this type of application , I planed on plowing the lot then using my wand for the brine solution, main reason being if I can keep the salt off my truck that's a +, Previously I always use a walk behind spreader, time consuming yes but clean and little harm to my bed. I was considering a separate 1 tank unit that would mix and apply and allow me room for my snow blower in the bed. Chris what is the Gal per sq.ft ratio you are using to calculate the coverage rate? also what is approx cost per gallon of mixed brine? Are you using salt and calcium or magnesium? or a combo? I guarantee I will get some funny looks spraying liquid on lots around here I cant wait,, Better not be in the forecast for the week of SOFTWASHAPOLOZA ha ha. I also love your creativity its is genius at work >> are you part German engineer ? Watch this video of German engineering at work in the art of lawn cutting and road work. [video=http://www.youtube.com/embed/L3j6HaAieEU?rel=0]
Matt Lancaster said
Nov 24, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/embed/L3j6HaAieEU?rel=0
Hank Timmermann said
Nov 24, 2012
Matt,
I'm in the Poconos, Dan is out in Mountain Top and you're in Quakertown. We should all get together one day. What do you think?
Hank
Matt Lancaster said
Nov 24, 2012
Be happy to name the time and place and ill be there.
Hank Timmermann said
Nov 24, 2012
I'll give you a call this weekend and I'll speak to Dan as well.
Hank
Hank Timmermann said
Nov 25, 2012
Matt L wrote:
Be happy to name the time and place and ill be there.
Matt,
It was a pleasure speaking with you today. Looking forward to meeting you soon.
Hank
John Smith said
Nov 25, 2012
That's what happens when the guy on the road crew slacks with the weed eater, he gets replaced with a machine. It looks like a great machine put it's going to put alot of people out of work.
Tim Teed said
Nov 27, 2012
Let me know if you guys get together I would be interested in learning and sharing ideas. We dont get much snow in northern Del and I was wondering if it would make sense to just to spray for the light snow
Dan Wanamaker said
Nov 30, 2012
A central location would be here in allentown. I would love to get together with all you boys. Keep me involved if you guys make it happen.
Dan Wanamaker
Riley Roof Wash
484-424-9274
Danny Cronauer said
Nov 30, 2012
Ya lets do it.
Hank Timmermann said
Nov 30, 2012
ABERoofClean wrote:
A central location would be here in allentown. I would love to get together with all you boys. Keep me involved if you guys make it happen.
Dan Wanamaker
Riley Roof Wash
484-424-9274
Dan W.,
I was starting to worry about you. Didn't see you around here recently. One day I missed you by minutes up at the chemical supplier from what they told me. Call me anytime. I'll keep you in the loop when and where we meet.
Hank 570-994-6918
Shaun Harton said
Aug 1, 2013
Hey guys, I was reading some of your ideas for winter time use for your softwash rig, and I would be very interested in hearing more about it. It does not look like there has been that much chatter since Nov, but I will keep my ears open. It gets cold and we get alot of snow up here in Central Michigan, and If I could make money during the winter months up here, I would love it.
Vic Irish said
Aug 31, 2015
This is a great thread with super possibilities! Chris Madden is amazing, sure hope he comes back...
Has anyone used their softwashing setups to make brine and use your trucks for winterizing in the off season?
Do you make brine like CH?
Still learning,
Vic Irish
AC Lockyer said
Aug 31, 2015
Vic Irish wrote:
This is a great thread with super possibilities! Chris Madden is amazing, sure hope he comes back...
Has anyone used their softwashing setups to make brine and use your trucks for winterizing in the off season?
Do you make brine like CH?
Still learning,
Vic Irish
Vic,
The powdered bleach module can be used to make brine. Not in large batches though.
AC
Vic Irish said
Aug 31, 2015
Thank you AC,
I'm curious if it would be legal to carry 200 gallons of brine without a CDL?
Wonder how many lbs of salt would make 100 gallons of brine? Could be another great module...
Still learning!
AC Lockyer said
Sep 1, 2015
Vic Irish wrote:
Thank you AC,
I'm curious if it would be legal to carry 200 gallons of brine without a CDL?
Wonder how many lbs of salt would make 100 gallons of brine? Could be another great module...
I would like to hear from folks using there softwash system to apply de-icing products? I am interested in offering this service in the winter months to help keep things moving and reduce down time. I know some of you guys are fortunate not to have to deal with snow and ice.
How many uses are there for your softwash equipment? I am also looking at applying a dust contol product (Calcium Chloride).
Hey Dan,
I have been researching this for a few months. There is tons of info on equipment, delivery systems, and different products. I'll share what I have found.
I originally was looking into a "Glycol" deicer. They are VERY expensive in general, and when you add shipping on a 275gal. tote it is out of the question for your typical residential driveway, or commercial parking lots, especially here in the South.
There are Many, Many, Many companies that sell a product for deicing. There are salt brines, salt brine variants, calcium chlorides, Magnesium Chlorides, Potassium Chlorides, Calcium Magnesium Acetate "beet Juice" etc, etc. Here is a small list and links to some products.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and there are many more, but this gives you a good start.
Dust and Ice Control
I found that the most cost effective product is making your own Salt Brine Mix. Salt brine itself is effective to somewhere around 10-20deg. F. A salt and Calcium Chloride brine is effective down to about -25deg F.
80-100 gal. of brine should cover up to 1 acre.
-The Making of Salt Brine
-Brine Maker - I will be making one from 275 gal totes.
-Residential Application
-Commercial Application/Large gas pump
-You can get fancy and install these on a truck mount
-Brine Maker Build Plowsite.com is one of my favorite forums, been frequenting it for many years now.
-saline refractometer
-Calcium Chloride Faqs
-Making brine/liquid deicer
My personal opinion is that the truck mounted "boom" sprayers should be for parking lots and commercial work. I think my existing truck mounted spray rig, as anyone elses is perfect for residential driveways, walkways, and commercial storefront walkways. I can very easily pull up to a house, grab my wand and pull what hose I need up to a clients front door and spray the walkway and the entire driveway, reel up the hose, and drive off in just a few minutes. Same for any commercial storefront walkways.
Well this should be enough info to tie you guys up for a week or so in reading and brainstorming. There is much much more info, but this should get anyone interested started in the right direction. If anyone needs help in getting started let me know, I will be glad to help.
Chris
Ok it is starting to get colder here, so I am starting on my Salt Brine Maker. Here are some pics of what I have purchased so far.
1. I scored an old 6.5hp pressure washer from the local auction last week for $50. Motor is a B&S and runs great. Took the pump off and tossed it.
2. I bought a 2" trash pump. I did not buy the expensive Poly/EPDM chemical pump, because I have a use for the Cast Iron one come spring, and can not use the Poly. I have the 2yr replacement warrenty on it
3. Bought a 275 gal. tote
4. Bought 2" and 3/4" PVC. I will reduce from 2" down to 3/4" to create some pressure and probably run through a 3/4" agitator. The more agitation the better.
5. Got some 2" fittings
6. and some 3/4" fittings
7. Pump fit right up to the motor on the cart.
More to come soon.
Chris
AC
Hey Dan,
I should have this completed this week. Then I will make brine in the "brine making tote" and transfer to other totes for storage. When it gets colder I can run up your way with a tank full of brine and you can try it out around your area. You can see how it works for you.
I got to work on it some today.
1. Got some 2" suction and discharge hose and some 2" cam lock connectors. The hose is not for the brine maker, but I may use it to transfer from tank to tank etc.
2. Added cam lock quick connects on pump.
3. Cut the top off of tote so I can dump rock salt and Calcium Chloride into tank.
4. Started to plumb the agitation part of the unit. Went from 2" pvc down to 3/4" pvc to a 1/2" tee at the bottom of the tank for agitation. The center line will have the grey agitator added.
5. filled it with 125 Gal. of water.
I will finish this week and see how my agitation works. If all is well, I will add 75 more gal. of water, salt, and CC, and make some Brine.
Chris
Gary,
I will be using it in an Anti-Icing capacity first and as an ice melter if need be . When this brine is on a surface it will melt off around 1" of snow fall and keep ice from forming and creating a bond to the surface. When you have more than 1" of snowfall you can go back and apply onto the snow, it will melt off another inch or so.
For those that plow driveways, it keeps the snow from bonding and forming ice. The driveways will be clear down to pavement. You could never get it that clear by just plowing.
So to answer your question, it can be used as both an ice melter and preventive.
We are offering different services so we can get in front of people, to start creating that client/contractor relationship and trust. We offer and market window cleaning, as this opens the door to potential clients that would never have called for a house wash or roof cleaning.
The anti icing is another one of those services to help "open" some of those doors.
Chris
You are planning on making your soft wash equipment a dual season service by spraying the salt brine during the winter, correct?
AC
Yes, I want to make the most use of my investment, My spray equipment. Everyone's systems are capable of spraying brine, and it will keep the money coming in, as opposed to letting the rig sit all winter. This is something EVERYONE that softwashes can do, provided you have cold or icy winters.
The SOFT WASH Systems we use will spray salt brine without modification.
I am currently making a quick and dirty salt brine maker based on one I found online (see attached).
If all goes well, I will make a larger unit next year out of true poly tanks, probably 500gal. batches with 2500gal storage tank. Right now I am just putting something together to get some brine made, and see how receptive my market is.
Chris
AC
Dan,
Brine is just another option to salt. To purchase a salter you will spend approx. $800-$3500
depending on the size of the unit. If you already have tanks mounted on your truck you can
add a gravity or pump system (pump is already on truck) for approx. $200-$300.
100 Gal of brine will cover 1 acre of area, and either prevent or melt off 1" of ice or snow.
100 Gal of brine weighs approx. 1000lbs.
Depending on your application (how you set up your spreader) it takes 1000-2000lbs of salt
per acre.
At 2am I would rather pump 1000 lbs (100gal) of liquid into a tank on the truck than fight
with trying to get 1000-2000lbs of salt into a hopper on the truck.
Both Salt spreading and Brine spraying are effective. They are both very capable solutions
to an Ice problem. If you go to Any plow forum, you will see a debate of salt vs brine.
In my opinion, if you have an investment in a SoftWash System, make use of the money
already spent, and use it in the winter if you can.
I have to run, I'll add more latter.
Chris
-- Edited by Chris Madden on Friday 23rd of November 2012 05:49:45 PM
Chris,
With winter just around the corner up here in northeast, PA I was wondering how this worked out for you.
Hank
You should bring the brine tank to Softwashapolooza.
AC
Thanks,
Dan
We ended up with a very warm winter, last year, so I was not able to market the service.
The salt brine is not new, MANY companies up north use brine as opposed to salt.
Chris
Chris,
Thanks for your valuable input. Dan and I will have to get together on this. He's one hour west of my shop and we work together well.
Hank
I think a Reese mount spray bar would be awesome. If yall are interested we could have an aluminum one done with 4 spray heads with a nice 8' reach. Just lock it in place, QD your wand onto it, start your pump and spray away.
AC
+1
If you do driveways or parking lots, this is the way to go.
You will need an inline solenoid with a remote to turn the system
on and off. I have alot of ideas for a good working system.
Chris
I am already in the plow biz in PA and was considering this type of application , I planed on plowing the lot then using my wand for the brine solution, main reason being if I can keep the salt off my truck that's a +, Previously I always use a walk behind spreader, time consuming yes but clean and little harm to my bed. I was considering a separate 1 tank unit that would mix and apply and allow me room for my snow blower in the bed. Chris what is the Gal per sq.ft ratio you are using to calculate the coverage rate? also what is approx cost per gallon of mixed brine? Are you using salt and calcium or magnesium? or a combo? I guarantee I will get some funny looks spraying liquid on lots around here I cant wait,, Better not be in the forecast for the week of SOFTWASHAPOLOZA ha ha. I also love your creativity its is genius at work >> are you part German engineer ? Watch this video of German engineering at work in the art of lawn cutting and road work. [video=http://www.youtube.com/embed/L3j6HaAieEU?rel=0]
http://www.youtube.com/embed/L3j6HaAieEU?rel=0
Matt,
I'm in the Poconos, Dan is out in Mountain Top and you're in Quakertown. We should all get together one day. What do you think?
Hank
Be happy to name the time and place and ill be there.
I'll give you a call this weekend and I'll speak to Dan as well.
Hank
Matt,
It was a pleasure speaking with you today. Looking forward to meeting you soon.
Hank
That's what happens when the guy on the road crew slacks with the weed eater, he gets replaced with a machine. It looks like a great machine put it's going to put alot of people out of work.
Let me know if you guys get together I would be interested in learning and sharing ideas. We dont get much snow in northern Del and I was wondering if it would make sense to just to spray for the light snow
A central location would be here in allentown. I would love to get together with all you boys. Keep me involved if you guys make it happen.
Dan Wanamaker
Riley Roof Wash
484-424-9274
Hey guys, I was reading some of your ideas for winter time use for your softwash rig, and I would be very interested in hearing more about it. It does not look like there has been that much chatter since Nov, but I will keep my ears open. It gets cold and we get alot of snow up here in Central Michigan, and If I could make money during the winter months up here, I would love it.
This is a great thread with super possibilities! Chris Madden is amazing, sure hope he comes back...
Has anyone used their softwashing setups to make brine and use your trucks for winterizing in the off season?
Do you make brine like CH?
Still learning,
Vic Irish
Vic,
The powdered bleach module can be used to make brine. Not in large batches though.
AC
Thank you AC,
I'm curious if it would be legal to carry 200 gallons of brine without a CDL?
Wonder how many lbs of salt would make 100 gallons of brine? Could be another great module...
Still learning!
Not sure of DOT regs on basically salt water?????
AC